Skrevet av Emne: Spygate  (Lest 65990 ganger)

0 medlemmer og 2 gjester leser dette emnet.

Annesj

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #90 på: Januar 16, 2019, 13:53:12 »
Hva skal man straffe for? Det er jo ikke skjedd noe straffbart her?
Marching on together
We're gonna see you win (na, na, na, na, na, na)
We are so proud
We shout it out loud
We love you Leeds - Leeds - Leeds

Promotion 2010

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #91 på: Januar 16, 2019, 13:57:50 »
Derbyshire police

Officers were called at around 11.20am on Thursday, January 10, to reports of a man acting suspiciously outside the @dcfcofficial training ground on Morley Road, #Derby. A man was found at the perimeter fence of Moor Farm and was spoken to. (1/2)

Officers conducted routine checks which were all above board. Despite media reports, no damage to the fence was found, and the man was stopped outside the grounds. No arrests were made and the man was sent on his way. (2/2)


Rom Taylor
If all checks were above board then that says to me he had no pliers......the serious question of who told Derby his name has still to be answered. If everything was above board and you don't disclose info,then how did Derby know he was a Leeds employee.....


Denne tråden kan det være verd å lese:

https://twitter.com/azzalufc/status/1085422655182917632?s=12

Og denne sløyfen..

https://twitter.com/derbyspolice/status/1085473518261817344?s=12


 ;)
« Siste redigering: Januar 16, 2019, 14:03:30 av Promotion 2010 »
Min første Leeds-kamp:
Strømsgodset vs Leeds, 19.september 1973

RoarG

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #92 på: Januar 16, 2019, 14:09:06 »
Hva skal man straffe for? Det er jo ikke skjedd noe straffbart her?
I våre dager krenkes man lett. Det er straffbart å krenke noen, tydeligvis ;).
"Jeg tror ikke på Gud, men etter Bielsas ansettelse må jeg nok revurdere", Roar Gustavsen, januar 2020

Killa

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #93 på: Januar 16, 2019, 14:11:35 »
Hva skal man straffe for? Det er jo ikke skjedd noe straffbart her?
I våre dager krenkes man lett. Det er straffbart å krenke noen, tydeligvis ;).

Selv om det ikke har skjedd noe direkte straffbart her - kan det likevel tenkes at klubben straffes utelukkende på bakgrunn av Bielsas innrømmelse av spionasje?

jackbauer68

  • Gjest
Sv: Spygate
« Svar #94 på: Januar 16, 2019, 14:16:53 »
Hva skal man straffe for? Det er jo ikke skjedd noe straffbart her?
I våre dager krenkes man lett. Det er straffbart å krenke noen, tydeligvis ;).

Selv om det ikke har skjedd noe direkte straffbart her - kan det likevel tenkes at klubben straffes utelukkende på bakgrunn av Bielsas innrømmelse av spionasje?

Om vi straffes fordi vi har hatt en kar på offentlig grunn og sett på ei trening, da gir eg opp.

RoarG

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #95 på: Januar 16, 2019, 14:19:27 »
Hva skal man straffe for? Det er jo ikke skjedd noe straffbart her?
I våre dager krenkes man lett. Det er straffbart å krenke noen, tydeligvis ;).

Selv om det ikke har skjedd noe direkte straffbart her - kan det likevel tenkes at klubben straffes utelukkende på bakgrunn av Bielsas innrømmelse av spionasje?

Om vi straffes fordi vi har hatt en kar på offentlig grunn og sett på ei trening, da gir eg opp.
Overraskende mange finner friheten et individ har som "uetisk" og "avskyelig". FL består av mennesker hvis etiske og moralske kompass jeg trekker i tvil. Fotballen er ødelagt av store penger, og blir mer og mer mafiastyrt.
"Jeg tror ikke på Gud, men etter Bielsas ansettelse må jeg nok revurdere", Roar Gustavsen, januar 2020

Cherry

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #96 på: Januar 16, 2019, 14:20:05 »
Skal like å se håndhevinga av dette fremover, og HVEM som skal utføre dette..
 

Annesj

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #97 på: Januar 16, 2019, 14:35:00 »
Hva skal man straffe for? Det er jo ikke skjedd noe straffbart her?
I våre dager krenkes man lett. Det er straffbart å krenke noen, tydeligvis ;).

Selv om det ikke har skjedd noe direkte straffbart her - kan det likevel tenkes at klubben straffes utelukkende på bakgrunn av Bielsas innrømmelse av spionasje?

Spionasje? At folk er å ser på konkurrenten skjer overalt hele tida.
Marching on together
We're gonna see you win (na, na, na, na, na, na)
We are so proud
We shout it out loud
We love you Leeds - Leeds - Leeds

RoarG

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #98 på: Januar 16, 2019, 16:07:00 »
Denne spionasje-anklagen er noe Lampard har kokt i hop. Påstandene han fremsetter om at den Leeds-ansatte hadde med seg kikkert og tang er opplysninger Derby-politiet ikke har gitt. Følgelig, dette er kun påstander i pressen ukritisk fremsatt av Frank Lampard. Hvorfor Lampard fremsetter slike påstander om Leeds, kan man lure på. Det er Lampard som må straffes, da han sprer løgner om en konkurrent på denne måten.

https://thisisfutbol.com/2019/01/blogs/derby-polic-responses-show-something-rotten-going-on-over-spygate/
"Jeg tror ikke på Gud, men etter Bielsas ansettelse må jeg nok revurdere", Roar Gustavsen, januar 2020

Sydhagen

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #99 på: Januar 16, 2019, 16:16:59 »
Pressekonferanse kl 17pm, lokal tid......

Bielsa gir seg?  >:( >:( >:( >:( :'( :'( :'( :'(
"Paynter, a striker whose danger factor is akin to a blind sniper, who has no fingers, or a gun."

Johnnyj

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #100 på: Januar 16, 2019, 16:30:16 »
Pressekonferanse kl 17pm, lokal tid......

Bielsa gir seg?  >:( >:( >:( >:( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Hvorfor skulle han gjøre det, mener du?

Tipper han legger seg flat og beklager Spygate, i et håp om at klubben blir mindre sanksjonert.

Asbjørn

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Sv: Spygate
« Svar #101 på: Januar 16, 2019, 16:31:54 »
Yep:

 
Joe Urquhart
@JoeUrquhartYEP

don't get that feeling. Think it's more of a response to everything that has gone on. Wait and see.
Tell me - I've got to know
Tell me - Tell me before I go
Does that flame still burn, does that fire still glow
Or has it died out and melted like the snow
Tell me  Tell me

Dylan

Sydhagen

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #102 på: Januar 16, 2019, 16:35:47 »
Yep:

 
Joe Urquhart
@JoeUrquhartYEP

don't get that feeling. Think it's more of a response to everything that has gone on. Wait and see.

Håper Joe har rett, Asbjørn.
Har en uggen følelse...
"Paynter, a striker whose danger factor is akin to a blind sniper, who has no fingers, or a gun."

Bromancer

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #103 på: Januar 16, 2019, 17:29:47 »
Går denne live noe sted?

Stut og Fjærkre

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #104 på: Januar 16, 2019, 17:38:09 »
Blir transkribert fortløpende på YEP, bare å sitte med oppdaterknappen.

raggen

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #105 på: Januar 16, 2019, 17:39:07 »
Hva skal man straffe for? Det er jo ikke skjedd noe straffbart her?
I våre dager krenkes man lett. Det er straffbart å krenke noen, tydeligvis ;).

Selv om det ikke har skjedd noe direkte straffbart her - kan det likevel tenkes at klubben straffes utelukkende på bakgrunn av Bielsas innrømmelse av spionasje?

Spionasje? At folk er å ser på konkurrenten skjer overalt hele tida.

DA MÃ… det jo blir forbudt med videoanalyse og alt det taktiske rundt det og kartlegge motstanderen.. HERREFRED sier jeg bare!!!!
Forever Leeds United!!!!!!!!

RoarG

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #106 på: Januar 16, 2019, 17:56:56 »
Hva skal man straffe for? Det er jo ikke skjedd noe straffbart her?
I våre dager krenkes man lett. Det er straffbart å krenke noen, tydeligvis ;).

Selv om det ikke har skjedd noe direkte straffbart her - kan det likevel tenkes at klubben straffes utelukkende på bakgrunn av Bielsas innrømmelse av spionasje?

Spionasje? At folk er å ser på konkurrenten skjer overalt hele tida.

DA MÃ… det jo blir forbudt med videoanalyse og alt det taktiske rundt det og kartlegge motstanderen.. HERREFRED sier jeg bare!!!!
Lampard er en pingle.
"Jeg tror ikke på Gud, men etter Bielsas ansettelse må jeg nok revurdere", Roar Gustavsen, januar 2020

Torpe-do

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #107 på: Januar 16, 2019, 17:58:43 »
Hva skal man straffe for? Det er jo ikke skjedd noe straffbart her?
I våre dager krenkes man lett. Det er straffbart å krenke noen, tydeligvis ;).

Selv om det ikke har skjedd noe direkte straffbart her - kan det likevel tenkes at klubben straffes utelukkende på bakgrunn av Bielsas innrømmelse av spionasje?

Spionasje? At folk er å ser på konkurrenten skjer overalt hele tida.

DA MÃ… det jo blir forbudt med videoanalyse og alt det taktiske rundt det og kartlegge motstanderen.. HERREFRED sier jeg bare!!!!
Lampard er en pingle.
Ei pingle og ein tulling.
Men verst i det heile er spekulativ media. Dette her er vel eit godt eksempel på «fake news», er det ikkje..?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Andersen

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #108 på: Januar 16, 2019, 18:09:16 »
Nå har jo Derby politiet gått ut og sagt at denne personen fra Leeds ikke gjorde noe ulovlig , og oppholdt seg på offentlig plass . Mens Frank Lampard hardnakket har sagt at personen holdt på å klippe seg gjennom gjerdet til Derbys treningsanlegg ! Venter Frank Lampard seg sympati fra folk for hva som har skjedd ? Han virker som en veldig dårlig taper , og kommer EFL til samme begrunnelse som Derby politiet burde faktisk Frank Lampard be Leeds United om unnskyldning for falske rykter .

RoarG

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #109 på: Januar 16, 2019, 18:22:40 »
Nå innrømmer MB å ha studert samtlige motstandere på forhånd. Hva får FL ut av dette, tro?
"Jeg tror ikke på Gud, men etter Bielsas ansettelse må jeg nok revurdere", Roar Gustavsen, januar 2020

Andersen

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #110 på: Januar 16, 2019, 18:27:45 »
Da kan man legge bort all kartlegging av motstanderene foran hver kamp ! om man sitter på tribunen og gjør notater , eller bruker time vis av videoanalyser som Bielsa er kjent for !

raggen

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #111 på: Januar 16, 2019, 20:06:21 »
Nå innrømmer MB å ha studert samtlige motstandere på forhånd. Hva får FL ut av dette, tro?

er det som kalles og gjøre seg kjent med motstanderene.. mulig Bielsa tar det litt lengre enn folk flest, men ingenting ulovlig med det han gjør
Forever Leeds United!!!!!!!!

Promotion 2010

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #112 på: Januar 16, 2019, 22:52:52 »
Blir nok noen presseoppslag i dagene som kommer.....


Leeds United head coach Marcelo Bielsa admits spying on every Championship club during unprecedented rebuttal

Joe UrquhartPublished: 19:40
Updated: 20:19 Wednesday 16 January 2019

Marcelo Bielsa admitted to sending scouts to watch training sessions of every club Leeds United had played this season as he launched an unprecedented rebuttal of claims that Leeds gained an advantage by spying on Derby County last week.


At an unscheduled press briefing called for 5pm this evening, Bielsa outlined in extraordinary detail the extent of his pre-match analysis process and poured water on the suggestion that dispatching a member of staff to see Derby train had influenced Friday night’s 2-0 win over Frank Lampard’s side.

 Leeds United head coach Marcelo Bielsa.
Leeds United head coach Marcelo Bielsa.
Bielsa is at the centre of a storm surrounding his admission that he instructed one of his backroom team to travel to Derby last Thursday morning, 24 hours before the clubs met at Elland Road.

The staff member in question was stopped by police outside Derby’s training before being released without charge.

Leeds and Bielsa are now being investigated by both the Football Association and the EFL following a complaint by Derby and Bielsa’s admission on Friday that he was solely responsible for the scouting trip.

The veteran Argentinian defended himself last week by saying he had employed the practice in other countries for much of his coaching career and he went further tonight by revealing that covert analysis of opposition training sessions had been carried out before each of Leeds’ competitive fixtures under him.

Bielsa, however, used an hour-long demonstration of his analysis at Thorp Arch - including what he said was almost 300-hours of time devoted to watching video footage of Derby alone - to play down the impact of last week’s controversy on a Championship clash which Leeds won comprehensively.

The United boss claimed his explanation and the open admission of watching other clubs train would make it “easier” for the FA and the EFL to conduct their investigations amid a wait to see if he or the club will face disciplinary charges.

“I'm going to make it easier for the investigation of the league,” Bielsa said. “I'm going to give the information it needs, and I assume the fact that my behaviour is observed from the most extreme position.

“In a few words I can say that we observed all the rivals we’ve played against. We watched the training sessions of all the opponents before we played against them.

“What I've done is not illegal. It's not specified (in the rules) and it's not restrained. We can discuss it and it's not seen as a good thing but it's not a violation of the law.

“I know that not everything that is legal is right to do but not all the wrong things you do are done with bad intentions. Because you have wrong behaviour doesn't mean you have bad intentions or the intention to cheat.

“Of course, if you observe something without the authorisation of the people being observed we call it spying and we say it is spying. I can't say it's the right thing to do.”

Lampard refused to accept Bielsa’s explanation that he was employing a tactic which is used elsewhere in the world but Bielsa reiterated his claim that spying on opposition camps was of limited value by revealing the staggering amount of the analysis conducted on each opposition club by his employees.

He criticised his own obsession with analysis as “stupid” butu admitted he was driven to assessing opposition sides excessively by an “anxiety” to cover every angle.

"Apart from the players, in your staff you have around 20 people,” Bielsa said. “These 20 people create a volume of information (about individual matches) which is absolutely not necessary.

“We think by doing that and gathering information we get closer to a win, even though we know it's not true. And in my case it's because I'm stupid enough to allow myself this sort of behaviour.

“I don't need to go to watch a training session of an opponent to know how the opponent plays. Why did I do it? Because it's not forbidden, I didn't know it would create such a reaction and even though this is not useful, it allows me to keep my anxiety low.”

Bielsa refused to say after Friday’s win if he would abandon his policy of attempting to covertly watch training sessions but speaking tonight he said: “As Lampard says, he doesn't believe I didn't have bad intentions. He believes I violated the fair-play spirit. So I have to adapt to the rules that are linked to the habits of English football.

“I'm not trying to justify my behaviour whatsoever. As Lampard said, we cannot justify my behaviour and he does not accept the explanation I gave.”
Min første Leeds-kamp:
Strømsgodset vs Leeds, 19.september 1973

Promotion 2010

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #113 på: Januar 16, 2019, 23:27:35 »
Leeds and Marcelo Bielsa crossed the line with 'spygate' but should not be punished strongly - a warning will do

Leeds and Marcelo Bielsa crossed the line with 'spygate' but should not be punished strongly - a warning will do

16 Jan 2019, 08:41pm
I spied... on everyone. Marcelo Bielsa’s mea culpa – or rather mea don’t give a damn – was the press conference of the season. It was a remarkable performance from a remarkable manager. It was unprecedented – although the extent of the analysis of the opposition faced by Leeds United this season is, frankly, not relevant to the key question: is it legitimate to spy or not?

In fact, anyone who has spent time at any successful club will know that “300 hours” of work, as carried out by the Leeds analysts this season, is not that unusual. It is not that meticulous. It is no more that many other clubs do although what is unusual are the circumstances under which Bielsa discussed this work.

Few issues have created such a violent polarising of opinion as this – whether it was right for Bielsa to send someone to peer through a fence and spy on Derby County before Leeds played them last week.
Min første Leeds-kamp:
Strømsgodset vs Leeds, 19.september 1973

RoarG

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #114 på: Januar 16, 2019, 23:32:34 »
Vel, Bielsa har sagt sitt. Disse punditsa endrer nok ikke mening. Til det har de gravd seg for mye ned i de bastante synspunktene sine. Hva de styrende organer mener om det, vil tiden vise.
"Jeg tror ikke på Gud, men etter Bielsas ansettelse må jeg nok revurdere", Roar Gustavsen, januar 2020

Promotion 2010

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #115 på: Januar 16, 2019, 23:33:27 »
Min første Leeds-kamp:
Strømsgodset vs Leeds, 19.september 1973

Promotion 2010

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #116 på: Januar 17, 2019, 00:11:55 »
Marcelo Bielsa admits Leeds have spied on every opponent this season

Louise Taylor
 
Marcelo Bielsa explains in his press conference his tactical analysis of opponents this season. Photograph: Mark Walker/PA
• Manager says it is not illegal but not necessarily right
• Bielsa insists he had no bad intentions or wish to cheat

Marcelo Bielsa has admitted Leeds United have spied on all their opponents this season but remains adamant no specific rules were broken and believes he is guilty of stupidity rather than cheating.

“I observed all the rivals we played against and watched the training sessions of all opponents,” said the Leeds manager in the course of an extraordinary, unscheduled, press conference cum coaching masterclass at the club’s training headquarters near Wetherby.

“So why did I send someone to watch them? Just because I thought I wasn’t violating the norm. All the information I need to clarify [my tactics] I gather without watching the training session of the opponent … but we feel guilty if we don’t work enough. Watching it [the opponents training] allows us to have less anxiety and, in my case, I am stupid enough to allow this kind of behaviour.”

Perhaps the most remarkable thing about Elland Road’s “Spygate” furore is that Bielsa’s Championship leaders have been able to deploy such clandestine tactics undetected for more than half a season.

The former Argentina and Chile manager was finally prompted to address the issue last Friday when, shortly before Leeds beat Frank Lampard’s Derby County 2-0 in West Yorkshire, the Midlands club revealed that police had apprehended a suspicious person outside their training ground on Thursday. Bielsa immediately acknowledged he was a member of his backroom staff.

Although the man was released without charge, it transpired he had been equipped with wire cutters, binoculars and disguised clothing. “Cheating is a big word but this is over the line,” said Lampard, who revealed that, before Derby lost 4-1 to Leeds earlier in the season a man was spotted lurking in the bushes outside his training ground. “I’d rather not coach than send people undercover on their hands and knees in the undergrowth,” added the former England midfielder.

The Football League and Football Association responded by launching investigations but, given that there are no precise rules governing footballing espionage, it is difficult to see exactly what punishment they can impose on Leeds and Bielsa without stepping into a legal minefield. Even so, the EFL has asked Elland Road executives for their observations and, once a response is received, will decide if there has been a contravention of the League’s charter and whether to issue charges against Leeds and/or their manager.

Marcelo Bielsa said: ‘I observed all the rivals we played against. We watched all the training sessions before we played them.’ Photograph: Paul Childs/Action Images
If any charges are proven, the League – liasing closely with the FA – believe the “full range of sanctions” could potentially be applied. These range from a slap on the wrist to expulsion from the league, although no one is suggesting that the latter scenario - or a points deduction – are likely.

Nonetheless Leeds made a point of issuing a swift, formal, apology to Derby on Saturday and Bielsa has evidently deemed it politic to adopt a conciliatory tone while opting for total honesty.

“I’m going to make it easier for the EFL investigation,” said the 63-year-old Argentinian, speaking via a translator. “My behaviour is observed from the most extreme position. By doing this I respect the possible sanctions by the authorities.”

Significantly he declined to use the precedent of past incidents of football managers spying on opponents – a practice that, as recently as Friday, he maintained is the norm across South America – as a defence and appeared to accept that a certain moral ambiguity underpinned such subterfuge. “I don’t want to make it easier for me by attacking others,” he said.

“Regarding what I’ve done it is not illegal. It’s not specified, described or restrained. It’s not seen as a good thing but it is not a violation of the law. Although not illegal it’s not necessarily the right thing to do. But the wrong things you do are not done with bad intention or an intention to cheat.

In the course of the media briefing, Bielsa also treated assembled journalists to a PowerPoint presentation designed to detail how much preparation and analysis he and his staff devote to each opponent - before spies are deployed and their reports compiled.

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Regardless of information received from undercover operatives, the Leeds manager spends countless hours analysing opponent’s previous matches. Citing Derby as an example, he revealed his research on the exact number of times Lampard had utilised particular formations, which players he had deployed in different positions and the identification of opposing formations they had struggled against.

If the underlying message was that Bielsa’s meticulous attention to the small print would almost certainly have helped transport Leeds to the top of the table without any spying, it probably worked.

More pertinent though is the question of how lawyers will interpret his actions in relation to EFL Regulation 3.4 which states: “In all matters and transactions relating to the league each club shall behave towards each other club and the league with the utmost good faith.”

Then there is the similarly rather woolly EFL Regulation 21 which states that managers must not bring the League or any club into “disrepute.”

Bielsa’s answer attributed what had happened to cultural misunderstanding. “If you observe something without authorisation we call it spying,” he said. “I’m going to try and explain I did not have bad intentions. I did not try to get an unfair sporting advantage but I did it because it was not illegal or violating specific laws. But I have to adapt to the habits of English football.”

Min første Leeds-kamp:
Strømsgodset vs Leeds, 19.september 1973

Promotion 2010

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #117 på: Januar 17, 2019, 00:13:47 »
Min første Leeds-kamp:
Strømsgodset vs Leeds, 19.september 1973

Promotion 2010

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #118 på: Januar 17, 2019, 00:16:31 »
Min første Leeds-kamp:
Strømsgodset vs Leeds, 19.september 1973

RoarG

Sv: Spygate
« Svar #119 på: Januar 17, 2019, 07:09:10 »
Kunne ikke vente annet av den amoralske engelske papparazzi-pressen.
"Jeg tror ikke på Gud, men etter Bielsas ansettelse må jeg nok revurdere", Roar Gustavsen, januar 2020