Emne: EX-eier: Ken Bates

[ollan]

http://www.thescratchingshed.com/2012/01/the-11-5m-leeds-united-war-chest/?

Hvis tallene og analysene her er riktige, har Bates et alvorlig forklaringsproblem. Nok en gang.

Eller for å si det litt annerledes: Vist tallene og analysene her er riktige. Ja da har Bates et alvorlig forklaringsproblem.

for hvem??oss morons gir han en faen i...

[KingHowson]

Bates er på ferie i sør afrika... Prisen på et liv er lavt der..

Tror ikke vi skal dra dette så veldig mye lenger nå, karer.

Dra det så langt dere vil. Mannen har ingenting i klubben i mitt hjerte og gjøre.

[Leedsfan]

http://www.thescratchingshed.com/2012/01/the-11-5m-leeds-united-war-chest/?

Hvis tallene og analysene her er riktige, har Bates et alvorlig forklaringsproblem. Nok en gang.

Eller for å si det litt annerledes: Vist tallene og analysene her er riktige. Ja da har Bates et alvorlig forklaringsproblem.

Hvor mange lag i denne divisjonen bruker 100 millioner norske kroner på lønn og transfers per sesong/år? Helst ikke ta den enkle:"vi er ikke som de andre lagene"!:)

[ojs]

Fremgår av tabellen om du går inn på linken. Viser at leeds var nummer 14 på lønnstabellen i 2009-2010 sesongen med 14 mill pund. Siden har bates kuttet lønnskostnadene ned til 11.5 som ha sa i går. Han budsjetterer med enda mindre.... 9.5.

Med andre ord kutter han i lønnskostnadene og vi ser derfor at allle bra spillere stikker....

Leeds brukte nå sist sensong 35% av omsetningen på lønninger, noe er meget lavt. Dette kan ha sunket enda mer... men nå kommer nok omsetningen til å krympe da fansen er fed up og salget krymper.... Bates selger nå derfor spillere istedenfor..

[Leedsfan]

Fremgår av tabellen om du går inn på linken. Viser at leeds var nummer 14 på lønnstabellen i 2009-2010 sesongen med 14 mill pund. Siden har bates kuttet lønnskostnadene ned til 11.5 som ha sa i går. Han budsjetterer med enda mindre.... 9.5.

Med andre ord kutter han i lønnskostnadene og vi ser derfor at allle bra spillere stikker....

Leeds brukte nå sist sensong 35% av omsetningen på lønninger, noe er meget lavt. Dette kan ha sunket enda mer... men nå kommer nok omsetningen til å krympe da fansen er fed up og salget krymper.... Bates selger nå derfor spillere istedenfor..

At han kutter sier vel ikke han selv, eller? Er du sikker på at tallene i tabellen stemmer?

Jeg stusser også over at han tør å si at vi bruker 100 millioner på A-laget i form av transfers, lønn og andre omkostninger da man kan se det i mot den totale omsetningen. 30-35% er jo lite i forhold til hva andre klubber bruker...

[lojosang]

http://www.thescratchingshed.com/2012/01/the-11-5m-leeds-united-war-chest/?

Hvis tallene og analysene her er riktige, har Bates et alvorlig forklaringsproblem. Nok en gang.

De forskjellige tallene her er, vel, forskjellige. Det er vel over 200 mann på nønningslistene til Leeds som ikke er med i de påståtte 11.5 millionene. Vi vet ikke om transferpenger inn tas med, hvis ikke er de påståtte to millionene Grayson er over budsjett dekket inn av salgene av Gradel og Schmeichel. Bates tall er dermed verdiløse. Og ren tåkelegging fra Bates side.

Like verdiløse som den finansielle analysen basert på dem da nødvendigvis må bli. Vi vet heller ikke hvilke av de andre klubbenes lønnsutgifter inkluderer stab utenom A-lagsspillerne. Så da vet vi vel egentlig like lite som vi alltid har visst? Ja, bortsett fra at seks av klubbene har større lønnsutgifter enn turnover, at 5 har 90% eller høyere. Ikke akkurat sunne finanser, spesielt hvis kun spillerlønninger er tatt med hos noen av disse klubbene.

Hvis Bates i stedet for tåkelegging faktisk hadde vært ærlig om finansene og realistisk optimistisk i utspillene sine om ambisjoner ville mye av misnøyen has vært... mindre misnøyd. 
Til å være en intelligent mann er Bates overraskende dum.

[Andersen]

Regner med at det er mere penger å hente for KB/klubben å spille i PL , men mannen er vel korka dum for å skjønne det !

[HåvardK]

Hvor mange lag i denne divisjonen bruker 100 millioner norske kroner på lønn og transfers per sesong/år? Helst ikke ta den enkle:"vi er ikke som de andre lagene"!:)

Vi er ikke som de andr...

Nei, forresten. "Vet ikke" blir mitt svar.

[Leedsfan]

Hvor mange lag i denne divisjonen bruker 100 millioner norske kroner på lønn og transfers per sesong/år? Helst ikke ta den enkle:"vi er ikke som de andre lagene"!:)

Vi er ikke som de andr...

Nei, forresten. "Vet ikke" blir mitt svar.

Jeg vet heller ikke, men når jeg ser på klubbnavn, tilskuere og pengetransfers så betviler jeg at det er så veldig mange..

[MrK]

Nå må en også huske at hvis inntektene øker så vil lønnsutgifter bli prosentvis lavere. 

[Rudi G.]

Nå må en også huske at hvis inntektene øker så vil lønnsutgifter bli prosentvis lavere.  

Kun hvis lønnsutgiftene er stabile, og det er de jo i LU, stabilt lave og inntektene er synkende, hvor skal dette ende?

[Leedsfan]

Nå må en også huske at hvis inntektene øker så vil lønnsutgifter bli prosentvis lavere.

Man må jo se på totalen, så lenge man ikke går med store overskudd, hva kan man egentlig forvente at det blir betalt ut i lønn?

[MrK]

Driftsinntekter - driftsutgift= profit/tap. Det er det som er saken, jo færre som mener og f.eks ikke går på kamp, dess verre blir det. Bates prøver å spare seg til suksess og så langt har det ikke vært vellykket.

Mitt tips at han fortsetter dette løpet uavhengig av hva vi og andre mener.

[p0ndus]

Nå må en også huske at hvis inntektene øker så vil lønnsutgifter bli prosentvis lavere.

Man må jo se på totalen, så lenge man ikke går med store overskudd, hva kan man egentlig forvente at det blir betalt ut i lønn?

Til orientering så beregnes et overskudd i en fotballklubb ca  på følgende måte:

Alle inntekter:
Eksempelvis publikumsinntekter, tilførsel fra overskudd året før,  salg av spillere, inntekter fra TV rettigheter , støtte fra sponsorer osv.
    -
Utgifter:
Lønn til spillere og stab, kjøp av spillere, evt nedbetaling av underskudd fra året før, skatt osv.(for Leeds sin del også nye doseter og dørklinker etc på KB sin hoteller ).

Eventuelt overskudd kommer da frem når regsnakpet gjøres opp året etter.

M.a.o det løpende lønnsnivået justeres ikke før evt året etter(om man driver en sunn klubbøkonomi da).



 

[Leedsfan]

Nå må en også huske at hvis inntektene øker så vil lønnsutgifter bli prosentvis lavere.

Man må jo se på totalen, så lenge man ikke går med store overskudd, hva kan man egentlig forvente at det blir betalt ut i lønn?

Til orientering så beregnes et overskudd i en fotballklubb ca  på følgende måte:

Alle inntekter:
Eksempelvis publikumsinntekter, tilførsel fra overskudd året før,  salg av spillere, inntekter fra TV rettigheter , støtte fra sponsorer osv.
    -
Utgifter:
Lønn til spillere og stab, kjøp av spillere, evt nedbetaling av underskudd fra året før, skatt osv.(for Leeds sin del også nye doseter og dørklinker etc på KB sin hoteller ).

Eventuelt overskudd kommer da frem når regsnakpet gjøres opp året etter.

M.a.o det løpende lønnsnivået justeres ikke før evt året etter(om man driver en sunn klubbøkonomi da).

Regner med at Bates opererer med et budsjett og et rigid sådant. Øker inntektene mer enn forventet gjennom sesongen så håper jeg at det betyr litt mer handlefrihet og går inntektene ned så skrur han igjen krana.

[ojs]

 04 Apr 2011

Leeds United Football Club Limited ('Leeds United') is the primary trading subsidiary of Leeds City Holdings Limited ('Holdings').

The financial year end for both companies is 30th June 2010.

Leeds United Football Club Limited

Headlines (2009 figures in brackets)

Turnover       Â£27,446,000     (£23,535,000) up 16.6%
Profit              £2,072,000        (£15,000)

Leeds United made an operating loss before amortisation of player's registrations in the sum of £670,000 which can be wholly attributed to the cost of gaining promotion to the Championship as payments made to players/ management staff as a result of the success. A total of £7,706,000 was paid to players and football management staff in the 2009/10 season.

Gate receipts increased by 30.8% to £11,732,000 and merchandising increased by 12.0% to £5,509,000.

The number of full time employees decreased by 5 to 184 and, in addition, there is employment for approximately another 710 employees on a part-time basis.

The balance sheet shows net assets of £7,140,000. In addition, as at the 1st September 2010, the senior football management estimated the value of the playing squad at £6,667,000 which is not included in the above.

Leeds City Holdings Limited

Headlines (2009 figures in brackets)

Turnover          £27,533,000      (£23,535,000) Up 16.9%
Profit                 Â£1,517,000        (-£1,375,000)

The balance sheet shows net assets of £6,767,000.

[Leedsfan]

The Curious Logic of Ken Bates

By Amitai Winehouse / January 21, 2012

42. To the average hitchhiker, this is the answer. To Leeds United fans, it may turn out to be the same. Mere days after Leeds United announced the sale of captain Jonny Howson, Ken Bates used his slot in the programme notes to reveal part of the logic behind the club’s finances. Bates, facing up to accusations that he has been in charge of a regime that has underspent at Elland Road, announced that last year, Simon Grayson was permitted to overspend on his budget by an entire £2 million, therefore leading to him suggesting that logically, he was most certainly backing the manager. This led to a total spending of £11.5 million on the playing side of Leeds United.

Enough, you might suggest, at a cursory glance. The issue comes, however, when the rest of Leeds United’s murky finances are considered. At the club, turnover last year was £27 million, which, given the lack of financial success of the various ventures Bates has attempted to institute around the club (Yorkshire Radio, Howard’s Restaurant, the Hotel in the future), was essentially exclusively the responsibility of fans purchasing the division’s most expensive tickets, merchandise and the country’s most expensive programme. To these fans, the most important aspect of Leeds United is success on the pitch.

This is where that number becomes important. Of that £27 million of hard earned money ploughed into the club by the fans, a mere 42% is spent on altering what occurs on the pitch. The rest disappears into the previously mentioned various ventures, and £5 million falls into a column called ‘other’. Obviously at a club such as Leeds, with the history of unsustainably ‘living the dream’, it could be considered reasonable to curbing spending on the playing side of matters.

However, the logic simply doesn’t work. In League One and League Two, as announced at the beginning of this season, a wage cap of 60% of turnover is set to be instituted. This is what the Football League regards a sustainable level of wage to turnover, and is worthy of praise. Bates himself backs the new system. Leeds United, however, spend 42% not just on wages, but the acquisition of players as well. At the most extreme end of the hypothetical scale, therefore, Leeds United can only possibly at most spend 18% less than the conservative estimate for a sustainable football club. When the minimal transfer outlay of the club is also included, it becomes obvious that Leeds are spending well below their potential on players.

This leads to what Leeds fans are becoming increasingly riled about, the departure on an annual basis of the club’s best players. Jonny Howson was, until a few days ago, the club’s 23-year old homegrown captain. In the years prior to this one, Leeds have already allowed players such as Max Gradel, Bradley Johnson and Jermaine Beckford to leave the club due to ongoing contractual disputes. In Bradley Johnson’s case, there were suggestions he left in order to allow improvements to the club’s squad, but given his current position in a team 9th in the Premier League, this does not seem logical.

The outcome that most Leeds fans fear is the continued drain of talent away from the club, without improvements taking place in the squad. Rumours already abound that Robert Snodgrass has ended negotiations as the club refuse to give him parity with the best-paid players, despite the fact that often Leeds only look a threat when he is involved. Aiden White, a young left back who came through the academy, looks on the verge of leaving as his contract slowly runs out, and wages offered apparently don’t come close to reaching the level expected by a first-team player at a Championship club.

Ken Bates will continually attempt to use his bizarre set of logic to bamboozle sets of Leeds fans into his fold, but the reality is that by anyone else’s measures, Leeds United fans are having 58% of their funds diverted away from anything they care about, into a mysterious black hole that is to the interest of only one, bearded, man.

[fmtj]

Driftsinntekter - driftsutgift= profit/tap. Det er det som er saken, jo færre som mener og f.eks ikke går på kamp, dess verre blir det. Bates prøver å spare seg til suksess og så langt har det ikke vært vellykket.

Mitt tips at han fortsetter dette løpet uavhengig av hva vi og andre mener.

[/color]




    skulle ikke forundre meg, den stabukken....

[ojs]

Gomersal G
Monday, January 23, 2012 at 10:40 AM

As the YEP seem to be a little less 'frightened' of upsetting Bates, how about running a story on Ben Parker's pre-match appearance in the Pavillion on Saturday and glove puppet Lorimer's reaction? For those of you that haven't heard, Parker took to the stage to address the fans and give his views. He decided to speak the truth about the Howson deal (good lad) and say it how it is. He stated that Howson is devastated at being forced to leave the club. He does not want to go but has been told by BatesHarvey that Leeds United need the money. He was offered an extra £400 a week (on top of his current reported £4k a week) and he rightly refused and requested parity with the clubs top earners (Paynter, Becchio, Brown etc who are reportedly around £11k a week). Surely as club captain he deserves a deal that puts him up there and takes him off his League 1 deal? Bates & Harvey have not offered him a second, improved offer therefore forcing him out. He's gutted. New baby, new house, all his family and friends local and captaining his local team. His old man is scathing too. Good on Parker for speaking his mind. He's done it 'cos he's nearly out of contract and knows he's on his way out. He'll be shipped out on loan today to Carlisle. Lorimer then jumped in and took the microphone off Parker and was abused by the crowd. No respect left at Leeds for Lorimer which is sad to see but he really has become a lap dog to Bates. Alos Aidy White will not sign as he has been offered a rise of £500 a week to make him up to £2500 a week. Forcing him to leave so we get the compo as he's under 24. Bates out

[B_Ød]

Gomersal G
Monday, January 23, 2012 at 10:40 AM

As the YEP seem to be a little less 'frightened' of upsetting Bates, how about running a story on Ben Parker's pre-match appearance in the Pavillion on Saturday and glove puppet Lorimer's reaction? For those of you that haven't heard, Parker took to the stage to address the fans and give his views. He decided to speak the truth about the Howson deal (good lad) and say it how it is. He stated that Howson is devastated at being forced to leave the club. He does not want to go but has been told by BatesHarvey that Leeds United need the money. He was offered an extra £400 a week (on top of his current reported £4k a week) and he rightly refused and requested parity with the clubs top earners (Paynter, Becchio, Brown etc who are reportedly around £11k a week). Surely as club captain he deserves a deal that puts him up there and takes him off his League 1 deal? Bates & Harvey have not offered him a second, improved offer therefore forcing him out. He's gutted. New baby, new house, all his family and friends local and captaining his local team. His old man is scathing too. Good on Parker for speaking his mind. He's done it 'cos he's nearly out of contract and knows he's on his way out. He'll be shipped out on loan today to Carlisle. Lorimer then jumped in and took the microphone off Parker and was abused by the crowd. No respect left at Leeds for Lorimer which is sad to see but he really has become a lap dog to Bates. Alos Aidy White will not sign as he has been offered a rise of £500 a week to make him up to £2500 a week. Forcing him to leave so we get the compo as he's under 24. Bates out

Jammen meg flott!

[Leedsfan]

Gomersal G
Monday, January 23, 2012 at 10:40 AM

As the YEP seem to be a little less 'frightened' of upsetting Bates, how about running a story on Ben Parker's pre-match appearance in the Pavillion on Saturday and glove puppet Lorimer's reaction? For those of you that haven't heard, Parker took to the stage to address the fans and give his views. He decided to speak the truth about the Howson deal (good lad) and say it how it is. He stated that Howson is devastated at being forced to leave the club. He does not want to go but has been told by BatesHarvey that Leeds United need the money. He was offered an extra £400 a week (on top of his current reported £4k a week) and he rightly refused and requested parity with the clubs top earners (Paynter, Becchio, Brown etc who are reportedly around £11k a week). Surely as club captain he deserves a deal that puts him up there and takes him off his League 1 deal? Bates & Harvey have not offered him a second, improved offer therefore forcing him out. He's gutted. New baby, new house, all his family and friends local and captaining his local team. His old man is scathing too. Good on Parker for speaking his mind. He's done it 'cos he's nearly out of contract and knows he's on his way out. He'll be shipped out on loan today to Carlisle. Lorimer then jumped in and took the microphone off Parker and was abused by the crowd. No respect left at Leeds for Lorimer which is sad to see but he really has become a lap dog to Bates. Alos Aidy White will not sign as he has been offered a rise of £500 a week to make him up to £2500 a week. Forcing him to leave so we get the compo as he's under 24. Bates out

Tar disse tallene med noen klyper salt... Stemmer tallene så er det jo bare helt sinnsykt..

[sportcarl1]

Gomersal G
Monday, January 23, 2012 at 10:40 AM

As the YEP seem to be a little less 'frightened' of upsetting Bates, how about running a story on Ben Parker's pre-match appearance in the Pavillion on Saturday and glove puppet Lorimer's reaction? For those of you that haven't heard, Parker took to the stage to address the fans and give his views. He decided to speak the truth about the Howson deal (good lad) and say it how it is. He stated that Howson is devastated at being forced to leave the club. He does not want to go but has been told by BatesHarvey that Leeds United need the money. He was offered an extra £400 a week (on top of his current reported £4k a week) and he rightly refused and requested parity with the clubs top earners (Paynter, Becchio, Brown etc who are reportedly around £11k a week). Surely as club captain he deserves a deal that puts him up there and takes him off his League 1 deal? Bates & Harvey have not offered him a second, improved offer therefore forcing him out. He's gutted. New baby, new house, all his family and friends local and captaining his local team. His old man is scathing too. Good on Parker for speaking his mind. He's done it 'cos he's nearly out of contract and knows he's on his way out. He'll be shipped out on loan today to Carlisle. Lorimer then jumped in and took the microphone off Parker and was abused by the crowd. No respect left at Leeds for Lorimer which is sad to see but he really has become a lap dog to Bates. Alos Aidy White will not sign as he has been offered a rise of £500 a week to make him up to £2500 a week. Forcing him to leave so we get the compo as he's under 24. Bates out

det här tror jag inte ett ögonblick på att om bechio och brown  tex fått 11000 pund i veckan så erbjuds howson 4500 pund, seriöst vem tror på detta?

[Mr. Leeds]

Gomersal G
Monday, January 23, 2012 at 10:40 AM

As the YEP seem to be a little less 'frightened' of upsetting Bates, how about running a story on Ben Parker's pre-match appearance in the Pavillion on Saturday and glove puppet Lorimer's reaction? For those of you that haven't heard, Parker took to the stage to address the fans and give his views. He decided to speak the truth about the Howson deal (good lad) and say it how it is. He stated that Howson is devastated at being forced to leave the club. He does not want to go but has been told by BatesHarvey that Leeds United need the money. He was offered an extra £400 a week (on top of his current reported £4k a week) and he rightly refused and requested parity with the clubs top earners (Paynter, Becchio, Brown etc who are reportedly around £11k a week). Surely as club captain he deserves a deal that puts him up there and takes him off his League 1 deal? Bates & Harvey have not offered him a second, improved offer therefore forcing him out. He's gutted. New baby, new house, all his family and friends local and captaining his local team. His old man is scathing too. Good on Parker for speaking his mind. He's done it 'cos he's nearly out of contract and knows he's on his way out. He'll be shipped out on loan today to Carlisle. Lorimer then jumped in and took the microphone off Parker and was abused by the crowd. No respect left at Leeds for Lorimer which is sad to see but he really has become a lap dog to Bates. Alos Aidy White will not sign as he has been offered a rise of £500 a week to make him up to £2500 a week. Forcing him to leave so we get the compo as he's under 24. Bates out

Tar disse tallene med noen klyper salt... Stemmer tallene så er det jo bare helt sinnsykt..

Ingenting overrasker meg med Leeds lengre. Gjeitebukken ut!

[Cherry]

Man må så, for å høste...........

Bates bare høster det andre har sådd.

[Jon R]

Bates er troende til det meste, men så dum tror jeg ikke han kan være. Han MÃ…TTE jo vite at dette ville komme ut ganske raskt,dersom disse tallene er riktige. Dette tror jeg ikke noe på, med mindre Svend Anders får det bekreftet via sine kilder på innsiden...

[Svend Anders]

Jeg tror Bates bare ødelegger for seg selv med de tallene han har gått ut med. Riktignok er det en del misforståelser fra kritikerne også denne gang, men å slå i bordet med at man har strukket seg langt ved å øke til over 11 mill pund, må han lenger ut på landet med.

Det som er interessant, er jo å se på hva f.eks opprykks- og playofflagene hadde i budsjett i fjor, f-eks Norwich. Og sammenligne tallene våre fra League One-tiden.

Jeg er helt for å holde lønningene anstendig, men beløpet han slår i bordet med skremme ingen.

Uansett hvor lavt det er, viser det også at lånesigneringene vi henter inn, som sikkert er det som "drar" beløpet, koster en god del.

Beløpet Bates har referert til (9 mill som er økt til 11 mill), inkluderer så vidt jeg forstår lønn og sign-on fees, men ikke transferbeløp. Det holdes vel normalt utenfor slike bilder, skjønt man kan aldri vite når Bates kommenterer.

Ã…rsregnskapet frem til sommeren 2011 slippes i slutten av mars.

SA

[Svend Anders]

På et annet område så avholdes det et interessant møte imorgen hvor det legges strategi videre for å få ny eier på banen. Der blir bl.a. det å finne alternativ eier ett av temaene. Jeg har alt hørt noen av taktikkforslagene og tror det kan komme mye positivt ut av det.

Jobber for å få best mulig dekning rundt dette i kommende TPN.

SA

[RoarG]

På et annet område så avholdes det et interessant møte imorgen hvor det legges strategi videre for å få ny eier på banen. Der blir bl.a. det å finne alternativ eier ett av temaene. Jeg har alt hørt noen av taktikkforslagene og tror det kan komme mye positivt ut av det.

Jobber for å få best mulig dekning rundt dette i kommende TPN.

SA

Spennende. Gleder meg til neste TPN.

[fjellhaugen]

På et annet område så avholdes det et interessant møte imorgen hvor det legges strategi videre for å få ny eier på banen. Der blir bl.a. det å finne alternativ eier ett av temaene. Jeg har alt hørt noen av taktikkforslagene og tror det kan komme mye positivt ut av det.

Jobber for å få best mulig dekning rundt dette i kommende TPN.

SA

HÆÆÆ?
noe positivt? jøss. ja det kan bli spennende. har dog mine tvil på "any changes" 

[ojs]

Lorimer som sier man skal hente inn nye eiere...?? Bates sin løpegutt har ingen troverdighet lenger.