Emne: Cupvinnercupen 1973 eller Serievinnerfinalen 1975 - Hva skjedde egentlig?

[Promotion 2010]

Det har pågått en debatt på WACCOE om hva som skjedde i disse to tapte finalene på 70-tallet. Hvorfor utartet det så veldig  Paris i 75. Det som førte til at UEFA stengte Leeds ute fra europacupene i 4 år. (Dette ble etter en anke begrenset til 2 år.) Dommeren i 75 hindret et Lorimermål med en tvilsom offsideavgjørelse og han overså en felling av Clarke av Bayern Munchens Beckenbauer, samme mann som fikk dommer og linjemann til å reagere på etter først å ha godkjent "målet".
Hvorfor utartet det i Paris? Noen peker på den frustrasjonen som Leedstilhengerne følte etter tapet i 1973 mot Milan i Saloniki i Hellas. Dommeren var korrupt og ble senere utestengt i en gresk rettsal fra dommergjerningen for livet. UEFA trådte ikke inn og den dag idag så har Milan beholdt trofeet.

Jeg har sakset endel av WACCOE-innleggene. Noen mener faktisk at saken bør opp igjen for å gi Leeds United oppreising. En politiker i England har jobbet med saken på toppnivå, mens en journalist (nå pensjonert med demens) gravde frem mye smuss i saken. Men i UEFA som i andre idrettsforbund blir folk pekt ut til vervene og dermed er de mye mer beskyttet mot angrep utenifra.

Se neste innlegg!

[Promotion 2010]

My aunty always said 73 was the worst in terms of refereeing.

3 blatant penalty decisions for us were turned down and the ref was banned for life by Uefa after the game.

At the end the neutrals in the Greek crowd turned on the ref and gave our lads a standing ovation off the pitch.

I wasn't at either, but in terms of blatantness, I suppose you'd have to say that Salonika was the most criminal, we had every decision go against us, they scored from an indirect free kick and the referee admitted after that he was bribed and never refereed again.

Paris of course was the bigger robbery in importance terms, because it was the European Cup Final not the Cup Winners' Cup Final, but probably the main thing to take into consideration was that although we know he was against us, turning down the most blatant penalty ever and then disallowing a perfectly good goal on the pretext of offside when not interfering with play, the referee was not officially bent, or was he?

The funniest thing about it was watching Norman Hunter getting sent off, two Milan players were on the floor before they knew what had hit them...

Either way, we was robbed, in fact both ways.

I was at both games

The Milan game was the most 'criminal' as Milan knew the referee had been bribed whereas Bayern had no idea

Both bribes were arranged by the then President of UEFA, Dr Artemio Franchi

Franchi arranged the bribe for the 73 Final via the President of the Greek FA, Giorbo Dedes who then made the 'arrangement' (2 Fiat Cars) with the Referee Hristos Michos

It was all too obvious the game had been fixed and the trail after investigations led back to Franchi, UEFA closed ranks and threatened to sue everyone who tried to investigate and threatened those who got close

Frachi was 'annoyed' that Leeds United asked for an investigation and also a replay, so out of sheer self pride fixed the game in Paris by insisting on the appointment of his 'favourite' French Referee via the French FA

Thinks thats all you need to know really

If this is indeed true, and i do believe you, then that is really shocking. I suppose the men in power can get away with anything if they want.

I assume then that the riots in Paris were as a result of not just the one game in 75, but also the Milan match 2 years prior. Were the riots as bad as has been made out? I mean, i can accept that we received a ban, but I haven't found anything to suggest Leeds fans were particularly violent towards Bayern fans or anything like that.
IIRC most arrests made were of French people who threw seat cushions onto the pitch in disgust at the way the match had been stolen.
Milan was beyond bent a bent referee, Bayern also a complete fixed travesty but a way more important match.

It probably says enough that in recent rears, Leeds MEP's have been campaigning to get the results declared a "draw".

The Greek referee was banned for life, not by UEFA but by a Greek Court of Law, UEFA did nothing

The referee was just the fall guy and he also talked

Two or three English Journalists got VERY close but their employing newspapers were always frightened off via threats from UEFA (Franchi)

Michel Kitabdjian the referee for the 75 Final was already well known for fixing a game, in this case a World Cup Qualifier some years earlier (1968/69) in Africa when after tossing the Bi Coloured Coin following a draw, tossed the coin again on his own after having a 'meeting' some 15 minutes after the first toss, then informed the winners they had lost and losers had won!

Franchi was involved in all sorts of 'things' in Italy, he died in a 'mystery' car accident in the 1980's a stadium is now named after him in Italy

UEFA still close ranks over both the 1973 and 1975 games, EEC Parliament recently mades moves for the truth and UEFA stated no action would be taken until 'additional evidence' came to light, therefore a Greek Court of Law has no standing where UEFA are concerned!

One day I really believe we will get our Winners Medals for 1973, not for 1975 though, no chance!

1973 wasnt live on TV, it was shown in full the night after as it was played on the same night as the European Cup Final, remember it well as it was on TV at home as I walked in after flying back from Greece

We were all informed at Lunchtime on day of 1973 Final the referee had been bribed and game fixed, it was buzzing around between Greek and English Press

Questions were asked before the game to UEFA, by both the Greek and English Press and Leeds United, Franchi and his cronies were corrupt dictators

Franchi then kicked us even harder, as after his involvement in both 1973 and 1975 he was the one that banned us for years from European Football following the Paris Riots

Michel Kitabdjian (1975 Ref) is the only one still alive, living in South of France, one day he MIGHT just talk, suppose it depends on how much money is offered as we all know he likes a bung 

Incidently guess where Franchi's sidekick at the time came from? his name was Hans Bangerter Secretary General, UEFA

ESPN recently showed the 73 Cup Winners Cup Final. It was from Sportsnight, presented by Harry Carpenter and the game was broadcast as highlights in black and white only. Carpenter said that the coverage was only available in a highlights package because of some contractual dispute involving UEFA and the TV Broadcasters. They often repeat these programmes so it may be shown again soon.

[Promotion 2010]

No, Swiss-German, was Secretary General of UEFA for about 30 years from early 1960's he is still alive and no doubt knows the full story, but UEFA made him one of their rare 'Life Committee Members' 

Sadly my brain is just full of Leeds United shit, not much room for owt else!

A great Sports Journalist, Ken Jones got closest in the 1973/75 investigations, discussed aspects with him a few times, sadly he now suffers from alzheimers

I attended both. The game in Greece was by far the most corrupt and everybody knew it.Milan tried to do a lap of honour and had to give up part way round due to the missles from the Greeks,Leeds and their fans were given a "standing ovation".
Paris started from what I saw with attacks on ticket touts this raised the temperature.The decisions in the game didn`t help but by far, from what I could see, the catalyst was when a Leeds fan attempted to get onto the pitch and what most people thought were stewards(in tracksuits) but were in fact French Police threw the person back after roughing him up, at this point all hell broke loose.
Leeds will always be blamed for Paris but the whole set up re allocations, organisation etc was a farce.
Salonika was one of my best memories has a Leeds fan, on going into the ground we were approached by an Italian Leeds fan and after the game, by the coaches Leeds and Greek fans were dancing about.On the way back through the streets the Greeks applauded all the Leeds fans as though they were royalty.

Any other team in England Ric and it would have all been sorted, but UEFA continue to this day to state 'no action will be taken until further evidence comes to light' in fact they stated that to a Leeds MEP only a few months ago who sent me a copy of their reply

Which is probably why Hans Bergerter is still on the UEFA payroll after 50 years!

He KNOWS the full story there is NO way he doesnt, he was almost certain to be implictated in the whole sorry affair!

The Fiat cars were arranged for delivery by a local Greek Fiat dealer 1 week before the game to the Referee with Fiat paying the bill, which is why the news broke before the game as the Greek Press got hold of it!

Doesnt take a genius really does it, Milan, Fiat Cars,,,,,,,,,,,, then at the inquiry in Greece it all came to light, the President of the Greek FA was promised a place on UEFA's Committee by Franchi if he could fix the game, wonder how much Franchi got from Milan?

Referee took the rap though, no one else!

UEFA have already set the Precedent of awarding a game lost in Europe to the losers by bribery, Nottingham Forest in a UEFA Cup Semi Final, some fooking good that did them 20 years later!

Can just see UEFA complaining to the Mods on here 'Fell Style' about slander  , but f*** em, its all fact!

FA never supported Leeds after 1973 either, even after the Ref was found guilty of taking a bribe in a Greek Court 

UEFA have never admitted ANY involvement in this case, which is why they replied to the EEC Parliament that they would take no action until 'additional evidence' came to light only a few months ago

Do you really think UEFA would state this after banning the Ref for life after the Final?

The Ref was banned by the Greek FA under orders from a Greek Court!

Anyone see the Time Of Our Lives programme.
Reaney talked about the Leeds team watching the Milan plane come in to see their
team get off "To see if they were dressed in suits or whatever" and the first guy off
their plane was the referee Michas he said "so I'm thinking there's something kind of
wrong here, cause it was a little biased".

I was at both matches and both results hurt. I was also involved in organising the petition that Jimmy Armfield took to UEFA? to get the ban reduced from 4 years to 2 (that's if my memory served me right).

I will always remember both nights, the way the Greeks reacted to us, the thundering and lightening and getting soaked in Salonika. Paris for the fact that we got back from Barcelona to find out we had only been given 8,000 tickets for the final. I had been to 70 matches that season and was told hard luck you can watch it on the telly! I wasn't doing that and ended up with 2 tickets selling one at face value to a Leeds fan I knew outside the ground. Things were going perfectly when Peter Lorimer scored. Was celebrating and players had got back to halfway line before Beckenbauer spoke to ref and it was disallowed. Things went downhill after that.

I was more upset in Paris though and then got back home to find out my mum had nearly died having an operation which made things even worse. The date is etched on my European Cup Final mirror and will never be forgotten

1973: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFt3yCB8Q3s
1975: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-zB6xIx3qg

Så kjære UEFA, GI OSS TILBAKE DET SOM RETTMESSIG ER VÃ…RT!

[Tom S]

Eg fekk ikkje oppleve desse to finalene, var hhv 2 og 4 år, men kjenner at det gjer vondt å lese dette. Vi er frarøvet viktige milepæler i vår stolte historie.

[Mester]

Eg fekk ikkje oppleve desse to finalene, var hhv 2 og 4 år, men kjenner at det gjer vondt å lese dette. Vi er frarøvet viktige milepæler i vår stolte historie.

Eg fekk dessverre oppleve begge finalene.
dei ligger som sår i sjela.
Den dag i dag hadde eg ikkje makta å sett kampane på dvd.....spesielt finalen i 75..

[jarle]

Vi rundspiller bayern eller verdensmesterne fra Tyskland 74 i 90 min... Paul M og Norman H i midtforsvaret er helt konger.. mer spisser en stoppere til tider... TOTAL FOTBALL!!!

For Beckenbauer til å se ut som Frode Kippe... Helt rått!!!

[brenaldo]

Ã… se klippet fra -75 er helt for jæv... maken til patetisk dommer 
Husker jeg gråt mine modige tårer etter kampen, livet var hardt for en 12-åring.
Men en gang Leeds, alltid Leeds

Marching on together

[trondt]

Da var vi to 12-åringer som gråt i -75, brenaldo.

[LeifMorten]

Det var finalen mot Bayern som gjorde meg til Leeds-supporter! Glemmer aldri den ræva innsatsen til dommeren. Det beste laget vant ikke.

[sveifors]

Ã… se klippet fra -75 er helt for jæv... maken til patetisk dommer 
Husker jeg gråt mine modige tårer etter kampen, livet var hardt for en 12-åring.
Men en gang Leeds, alltid Leeds

Marching on together

Du var nok ikke den eneste som gråt den kvelden. Jeg husker den kampen med skrekk og gru og den tomheten man følte etterpå. Jeg var 14 år og har ALlTID ønsket Tysk fotball med Bayern Munchen i spissen dit peppern gror etter det.

Har hørtGary Edwards , superfan i Leeds, holder vistnok på med en ny bok. Der har han avtalt et møte med denne dommeren fra kampen. Han har gitt en annen grunn, men skal ta opp finaldømmingen uanmeldt i intervjuet. Det kan jo bli spennende.

[Cherry]

..ja, slenger meg på her også- dette gjorde meg virkelig til Leeds-supporter. Makan til Urettferdighet. En dommer som er kjøpt & betalt før kamp, som i 73`.

-Det værste er jo at det ikke er gjort noe med resultatet & pokalene i ettertid!!
UEFA......der er det mange mafiabosser der!

[pedro]

Finalen i 75 endret mitt liv og mitt syn på øvrigheten. Har siden vært særdeles skeptisk til alt  såkalt organisert idrett. Blir aldri kvitt klumpen i magen og ergrer meg den dag i dag noe så inst i h...te over resultatet. Det er hinsides at ikke denne kampen har fått et etterspill og at Leeds fikk ettergitt pokalen. Måtte dette graves fram nå 34 år etterpå og rettferdigheten en gang for alle seire.
Satt forøvrig i forrige uke og bivånet et program på ESPN Classic på TV'n, hvor Bayern f**king Munchen ''stjernene'' (Sepp mayer, Muller og flere) bl.a. jattet om sine ferdigheter. Viste her et klipp fra finalen i 75 hvor de dro frem klipp fra BM's 2 scoringer med sine egne skrytekommentarer over lagets fantastiske angrepregenskaper. Totalbildet og mafiatilstandene ble ikke nevnt med et ord, jeg ble oppriktig kvalm og ble sittende apatisk til laaaangt over midnatt den kvelden. Det provoserer meg så inst i helsikken

Heldigvis styrker alt dette dævelskapet mine følelser til vårt kjære Leeds United, og jeg må si som Bjørge Lillelien en gang ropte ut; ''I could die for Leeds United''.

MOT

[berlin]

Jeg var 11 år og jeg satt i stuen og så finalen mellom Leeds og Bayerm Munchen. Jeg regner fortsatt 28-mai 1975 som datoen da jeg giftet meg med Leeds. Riktignok hadde jeg vært forlovet med Leeds i drøye 2 år, men 29.mai 1975 stod bryllupet, og jeg gråt....av sorg. Litt atypisk for et giftemål men.

Lurer fortsatt på om jeg hadde blitt så blodfan som jeg er, om Leeds hadde vunnet. Det er ingen tvil om at jeg var følelsesmessig solgt etter det urettferdige tapet.

[h.b]

Urettferdig eller ikke.
Bayern Munchen hadde den personen som virkelig betydde mest i denne kampen. Denne personen er av verdenskaliber. Greide nemmlig å snu kampen helt på egenånd. Det er virkelig merkelig at et lag kan få tak i en slik person som greiser dette kunststykket i å få kampen dit som man hadde planlagt.
Hvilken person snakker jeg om her. Jo dommeren.

[fmtj]

Da var vi to 12-åringer som gråt i -75, brenaldo.

Langt i fra!!! Vi var minst tre og med tanke på alle mine klassekamerater den gangen vet jeg at det var en hel generasjon "12 åringer" som gråt denne sene kvelden da Leeds United rundspilte Bayern, men ble brutalt fratatt seieren av en håpløs djevel i sort!

[Bobby.]

Eg fekk ikkje oppleve desse to finalene, var hhv 2 og 4 år, men kjenner at det gjer vondt å lese dette. Vi er frarøvet viktige milepæler i vår stolte historie.

Eg fekk dessverre oppleve begge finalene.
dei ligger som sår i sjela.
Den dag i dag hadde eg ikkje makta å sett kampane på dvd.....spesielt finalen i 75..

Jeg opplevde også begge kampene via TV, og selv om j bare var 10 & 13, så har spesielt kampen i Paris brent seg inn i hjertet. Hadde vel ikke forståelse for alle reglene da, men forsto fort - at det hadde ikke domerene heller!!! Tror heller ikke jeg klarer å se dem igjen!  MOT!!!

[GeirO]

Da var vi to 12-åringer som gråt i -75, brenaldo.

Langt i fra!!! Vi var minst tre og med tanke på alle mine klassekamerater den gangen vet jeg at det var en hel generasjon "12 åringer" som gråt denne sene kvelden da Leeds United rundspilte Bayern, men ble brutalt fratatt seieren av en håpløs djevel i sort!

Jeg var 12 år jeg også. Kameraten min også. Vi var uhyre skuffet i mange år etterpå, og da tuller jeg ikke.

[arneg]

Får en klump i magen enda når jeg tenker på kampen i 75.  Trist var det for en gutt som enda ikke var fylt 14 og trist er det å tenke på enda.
Dommerjævel!

[ØBS]

Da var vi to 12-åringer som gråt i -75, brenaldo.

Langt i fra!!! Vi var minst tre og med tanke på alle mine klassekamerater den gangen vet jeg at det var en hel generasjon "12 åringer" som gråt denne sene kvelden da Leeds United rundspilte Bayern, men ble brutalt fratatt seieren av en håpløs djevel i sort!

Jeg var 12 år jeg også. Kameraten min også. Vi var uhyre skuffet i mange år etterpå, og da tuller jeg ikke.

Jeg var bare 10 og vi hadde ikke TV, men jeg gråt allikevel...

[Promotion 2010]

Dave Rowson
Chairman Charley has put forward via @FollowMeAndLUFC & Gary Edwards his suggestion of playing Club Atletico Independiente in the centenary match 2019 .. 1/2

Dave Rowson
FC Bayern Munich, even as (false) European champions, didn't find compatible schedule together with South-American champions, Club Atlético Independiente, to play the 1975 Intercontinental Cup. He thinks we should now play the game that should’ve happened 2/2




En svært god ide!!!!!!! 



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I've made sure I've passed this on to the club so it is up to them now @LUFC