Den økonomiske hverdagen, blir det bedre?

Started by Kato, April 08, 2014, 12:22:07

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Kato

Vi har klamret oss til håpet i mange år. Klubben er stor, Elland Road er ærverdig, fanbasen er best i landet. Spillere velger Leeds. Resultatet har vel vært sådær. Spillerne har vel mange ganger valgt bort Leeds, da andre på samme nivå har betalt bedre.

Når jeg tenker meg om så tror jeg mange av de som har lykkes hos oss, har vært egne produkt eller spillere hentet inn fra anonyme tilværelser. Beckford, Becchio, Howson, Snodgrass, Byram, Gradel og sikkert dusinvis flere har neppe hatt lønn som incitament for å komme til oss.

Om det stemmer var det jo sjokkartet om vi betalte Murphy 22k i uka i sommer. Langt over malen, og langt over det vi hadde råd til. Jeg har hatt inntrykk at vi har ligget på en 8-10k, og lønnsledende på 12-14k. Men nok om det. GFHs (og McDermotts?)prioriteringer har vel ikke bare vært å forstå.

Hva nå? Cellino kommer inn med lovnader om å kjøpe Elland Road og Thorpe Arch tilbake i full fart. Investeringer, som han sikkert får igjen for ved en senere anledning.

Hva så med sport? Kritikerne her inne har sett på historikken i Cagliari. Cellino fremstår med åpen pengebok, lovnader og yachter i øst og vest. Men i Cagliari brukte han visstnok ikke mye mer enn det som kom inn.

Hos oss starter han med å fylle hulltanna. Lønn etterbetales, lån tilbakebetales, og sluket skal stoppes.

Men allerede i går så vi første tegn på at de som ser for seg en heidundrende fest, ja de kan bli lange i maska.

McDermott får sitte, Cellino har ingen planer om å kaste vekk mange millioner på sluttpakke til manageren. Det var starten.

For oss supportere er det investeringer i spillerstallen som gjelder. Og der har han sommeren på seg. For oss supportere er det her det gjelder. Ikke direktørbokser, ikke dass. Gode spillere.

Vi får håpe fortsettelsen viser at Cellino har det andre plasser enn bare i kjeften.  For den har han bekreftet til gangs at fungerer.
 

Promotion 2010

Pengene kommer nok ikke til å sitte løst som vi håper, men han kjøper nok tilbake noen anlegg.




I går hadde ikke Cellino fått stemplet sin overtakelse, det har han på fredag!   ;D
Min første Leeds-kamp:
Strømsgodset vs Leeds, 19.september 1973

B_Ød

uklart og vil vel forbli det en god stund fremover. Nesten søtt og se hvor mange som nå udelt tror på oppsving.
Ups & Ups!!

Joe Jordan

Dette er Leeds så det er vel ikke SÃ... mange som våger håpe på gull og grønne skoger. Regnskapet viser £22m i minus, trolig enda mer. Samtidig ble det utbetalt flere millioner i direktørbonuser. Det er en ekstrem ryddejobb som står for døren....

'If they hadn't scored, we would've won.' - Howard Wilkinson

Sydhagen

Og vi har vel financial fair play å tenke på neste sesong....?? :o
"Paynter, a striker whose danger factor is akin to a blind sniper, who has no fingers, or a gun."

ollan

Jeg er en av de som ikke tror at MC vil bruke penger som en "full sjømann i land" (italiener). Men jeg tror at klubben får inn en eksentrisk eier som sørger for at regninger blir betalt og at vi som utenforstående (selv om noen her inne mener at vi vet alt som skjer i klubben) ikke en gang i året får konkurspekulasjoner hengende over oss med dommedagsprofetier og mere med. Regner med at MC er en oppegående forretningsmann og har et mål om å få oss opp i PL på noen sesonger. Samtidig har vi fått en eier som har kjærlighet og forståelse på hvordan en fotballklubb fungerer. Det hadde ikke GFH, Bates hadde vel bare kjærlighet for penger?
Ja jeg tror den økonomiske hverdagen blir bedre,men neppe noe bonanza med tanke på dyre spillere og PL lønn til noen før vi er der.
Promotion 2016..........kansje
Ollan

Leedsfan

Cellino blir kanskje en mellomting mellom Bates og GFH? Beinhard kontroll på det økonomiske og en sportslig satsing uten sløsing!

Tenk når gjennomsnittlige fotballspillere av britisk opphav skal forhandle med Cellino on lønn?!? Han har jo allerede sagt at £18mill på lønn er £13mill for mye..

Ikke forvent stjernespillere av britisk opphav, kanskje mer ukjente juveler!
I scored 24 goals helping my side win promotion back to the Premier League aged just 22. Then in my first season in the top flight I had bagged an impressive 15 goals by the end of January. My form earned me an England call-up. Am I a £35m striker? No. I am Michael Ricketts, February 2002.

Sleivind

Quote from: Leedsfan on April 08, 2014, 14:27:10
Cellino blir kanskje en mellomting mellom Bates og GFH? Beinhard kontroll på det økonomiske og en sportslig satsing uten sløsing!

Tenk når gjennomsnittlige fotballspillere av britisk opphav skal forhandle med Cellino on lønn?!? Han har jo allerede sagt at £18mill på lønn er £13mill for mye..

Ikke forvent stjernespillere av britisk opphav, kanskje mer ukjente juveler!

Selvsagt er £18 mill alt for mye. At spillere over 30 år som knapt sitter på benken i en middels 1.divisjonsklubb skal tjene mangfoldige millioner er i beste fall kvalmende.

Leedsfan

Quote from: Sleivind on April 08, 2014, 15:11:28
Quote from: Leedsfan on April 08, 2014, 14:27:10
Cellino blir kanskje en mellomting mellom Bates og GFH? Beinhard kontroll på det økonomiske og en sportslig satsing uten sløsing!

Tenk når gjennomsnittlige fotballspillere av britisk opphav skal forhandle med Cellino on lønn?!? Han har jo allerede sagt at £18mill på lønn er £13mill for mye..

Ikke forvent stjernespillere av britisk opphav, kanskje mer ukjente juveler!

Selvsagt er £18 mill alt for mye. At spillere over 30 år som knapt sitter på benken i en middels 1.divisjonsklubb skal tjene mangfoldige millioner er i beste fall kvalmende.

Hvis du mener at £18 mill er for mye så blir det vanskelig med opprykk uten spillerinnrykk fra resten av verden. Husk at Bates mente at £10 mill var nok, men måtte la det bli £12 mill. Det er ikke stor stor forskjell fra £12 mill til £18 mill, hvor skal Cellino legge seg?
I scored 24 goals helping my side win promotion back to the Premier League aged just 22. Then in my first season in the top flight I had bagged an impressive 15 goals by the end of January. My form earned me an England call-up. Am I a £35m striker? No. I am Michael Ricketts, February 2002.

nord

£18 mill alt for mye, dvs. hvis man tænker hvad vi har fået for pengene !  ;)
 

Promotion 2010

#10
George Dyer
@albo_akinfenwa @PhilHayYEP £35m to GFH, I would estimate £15m to cover next years losses (based on inc. cost base etc), £15m for ER 1/2

£10m squad investment? Already at £75m and also know there is further debt due outside of this. £80-85m total.

Dialog twitter

Creditors (debt) was £30.4m of which £15.2m owed to Brendale (GFH subsidiary). In addition there's "other loans" of £1.6m.

@Ole1985 @MoscowhiteTSB so what's the total debt of Leeds United FC all in?

@Ole1985 @benleeds These loans need to be looked at closely, what were the loans for should that have been investment as the owner not loans

George Dyer @ole
@pwhiteley41 @benleeds doesn't matter. Is in the SPA that Cellino signed that these need to be paid. They are therefore legitimate.




Min første Leeds-kamp:
Strømsgodset vs Leeds, 19.september 1973

Promotion 2010

Dette kan bli en utfordring i fremtiden kanskje. 24 klubber i diskusjon om strengere (?) tiltak i forhold til økonomisk fair Play?

http://www.leedsunited.com/news/article/h9p7uwob942w1t5oq4cq0f7ga/title/championship-clubs-consider-ffp-rules?

::)
Min første Leeds-kamp:
Strømsgodset vs Leeds, 19.september 1973

Leedsfan

Så GFH har lånt seg selv kjøpesummen av klubben, de har også lånt seg selv alt omsetningen ikke har klart å dekke og de har samtidig tatt ut gode lønninger.

Så kommer naive og dumme Cellino. Han kjøper klubben til overpris, tar på seg all gjeld og lover å satse hardt fremover ved å kjøpe tilbake ER+TA og ha som mål å rykke opp til PL innen 2016 sesongen er over.

Og noen kaller denne mannen alt annet enn en redningsmann!! Ingen andre hadde vært så dum som Cellino. Eneste måten han kan få pengene sine tilbake er ved å ta oss tilbake til PL!

Jeg elsker den mannen!
I scored 24 goals helping my side win promotion back to the Premier League aged just 22. Then in my first season in the top flight I had bagged an impressive 15 goals by the end of January. My form earned me an England call-up. Am I a £35m striker? No. I am Michael Ricketts, February 2002.

Bromancer

Quote from: Leedsfan on April 10, 2014, 13:57:06
Så GFH har lånt seg selv kjøpesummen av klubben, de har også lånt seg selv alt omsetningen ikke har klart å dekke og de har samtidig tatt ut gode lønninger.

Så kommer naive og dumme Cellino. Han kjøper klubben til overpris, tar på seg all gjeld og lover å satse hardt fremover ved å kjøpe tilbake ER+TA og ha som mål å rykke opp til PL innen 2016 sesongen er over.

Og noen kaller denne mannen alt annet enn en redningsmann!! Ingen andre hadde vært så dum som Cellino. Eneste måten han kan få pengene sine tilbake er ved å ta oss tilbake til PL!

Jeg elsker den mannen!

Da er vi to

Leedsfan

Quote from: Bromancer on April 10, 2014, 14:16:04
Quote from: Leedsfan on April 10, 2014, 13:57:06
Så GFH har lånt seg selv kjøpesummen av klubben, de har også lånt seg selv alt omsetningen ikke har klart å dekke og de har samtidig tatt ut gode lønninger.

Så kommer naive og dumme Cellino. Han kjøper klubben til overpris, tar på seg all gjeld og lover å satse hardt fremover ved å kjøpe tilbake ER+TA og ha som mål å rykke opp til PL innen 2016 sesongen er over.

Og noen kaller denne mannen alt annet enn en redningsmann!! Ingen andre hadde vært så dum som Cellino. Eneste måten han kan få pengene sine tilbake er ved å ta oss tilbake til PL!

Jeg elsker den mannen!

Da er vi to

Med det nicket så ble jeg ikke overrasket..:)
I scored 24 goals helping my side win promotion back to the Premier League aged just 22. Then in my first season in the top flight I had bagged an impressive 15 goals by the end of January. My form earned me an England call-up. Am I a £35m striker? No. I am Michael Ricketts, February 2002.


nord

Smart bliver set sjovt igen at være Leeds supporter , set ER faktisk allerede, Manutd go home, now it s our term to have fun
:)
 

Leedsgutt

Men jeg hva GFH tenkte når de kjøpte klubben ?   Hva var deres plan... var det virkelig planen og ta opp dyre lån.. og hvis ikke for gikk det galt ?

Jostein.

Litt kjedelig for oss at Fair play reglen trer i kraft neste sesong, nå kan du ikke kjøpe deg opp i PL for å si det sånn. Noe som egentlig er bra, men det er allerede klubber som har kjøpt seg til det meste de siste årene.
Leeds Carajo!

fmtj


Quote from: Jostein. on April 10, 2014, 15:45:54
Litt kjedelig for oss at Fair play reglen trer i kraft neste sesong, nå kan du ikke kjøpe deg opp i PL for å si det sånn. Noe som egentlig er bra, men det er allerede klubber som har kjøpt seg til det meste de siste årene.


Nei, kjøpe seg opp, da må vi jo spille oss opp og der kan vi jo være optimistiske.... :P!! Cellinos intervju i YEP tyder på at mannen ikke kaster penger ut av vinduet og han nevnre Cagliari som en forftig drevet klubb økonomisk sett. Ingen gjeld og overskudd og greier. Tror ikke vi skal forvente Eldorado med en gang, men det er ingen tvil om at han er offensiv. Krystallklar på at dersom vi ikke er i PL i 2016 har han mislykkes. Det liker jeg!!!!
Yeboahs vitne

Promotion 2010

TILTAK SOM IFØLGE EKSPERTENE BØR GJØRES:

George Dyer does Leeds United finance.

By Editor on April 14, 2014

Basically sell lots of these.

Leeds United â€" 2012/13 Results â€" Time for the Italian Job? George Dyer of the Ups and Down blog looks at the 2012-13 accounts and kindly lets us reproduce his analysis. For a better version of this article with graphs and things go to http://ole1985.blogspot.co.uk/?m=1

“Leeds is potentially a Ferrari, now it’s a Cinquecento. I want to transform Leeds from Highway to Hell to Stairway to Heaven” â€" Massimo Cellino

The 31st of March has sadly become a pivotal date in the calendars of most Leeds fans, as we await with trepidation the latest financial results. 31st March 2014 (or 8th April by the time Companies House got the accounts uploaded) proved to be no exception.

The period covered by the 2012/13 accounts cover the final 6 months of the Bates era, and the first 6 months of GFH taking the helm. To refresh the memories of Leeds fans, this was the season where the “Bates Out” campaign really took hold, with average attendances dropping from 23,369 to 21,572 (-7.7%). This led to a drop in match day and other commercial revenue of 12% over the year, a clear indication that fans boycotting Elland Road had a significant impact on the finances. Whilst a drop of 12% in revenue might be a challenge for any business, for a club which had spent a significant amount of time hugging the line between profitability and loss, it became a death grip.

2012/13 saw an overall drop in gross profit of 13%, however also an increase in administration costs of 16%. This had a “double whammy” impact of tripling operating losses from £4.2m to ca. £12.4m. This was partially mitigated by income generated through player sales of £3.9m (predominantly in relation to the sale of Snodgrass). Since 2008, Leeds had managed to cling onto profitability based on player sales. 2012/13 was the first year where this strategy didn’t work as losses started to spiral.

A further indication of the engulfing financial crisis facing Leeds during 2012/13 was the spike in borrowing costs, which increased from zero to £1.3m during the year. This would indicate (and as we knew at the time) that the club was having to borrow increasingly in order to cover its over heads. Financial obligations increased 50% over the year to a total of £34.4m, predominantly due to loans of £15.2m owed to “related parties”, which relates to £11.3m owed to Brendale Holdings Ltd (a GFH subsidiary) and the remainder owed to other “related parties”. £800,000 of the interest paid is in relation to the redemption premium of preference shares owned by Lutonville Holdings as well as a £100,000 administration fee. Lutonville Holdings is a company connected to Outro and by virtue, Ken Bates.

The net conclusion of all this was a net loss of £9.9m. However once you strip out discontinued operations (c. £650k relating to the discontinuation of Yorkshire Radio) and player trading (“one-off” items which aren’t indicative of the true ongoing operating position) you get to a net loss of £11.4m which is a more accurate reflection of the true financial position of the club. This was a substantial increase from the net loss of ca. £540k in 2011/12 and significantly in excess of the limit under the financial fair play regime which will come into force next season which allows losses of £3m and a further equity injection of £5m (a total of £8m).

Where do we go from here? Leeds in perspective vs. other Championship clubs, and the task ahead for Cellino

The publication of the accounts was followed swiftly by the publication by Swiss Ramble of the statistics of the other Championship clubs, which can be found on Twitter by following @swissramble or online at http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk.

The 2012/13 results show that Leeds generated the second highest Championship revenue overall. Once you strip out parachute payments, Leeds were actually highest by some considerable margin, with the next highest being Brighton, some 20% behind. It is worth reflecting that this was in a season where Elland Road was dealing with average attendances of 21,572, the lowest average attendance since 2006-07 when we were relegated from the Championship.

With a club generating this much revenue, even in a bad year, why is the club making such substantial losses? The highest cost item for a football club is invariably the wage bill. On an absolute basis, Leeds has the 11th highest wage bill in the Championship, with the highest being Bolton, followed closely by Blackburn Rovers, Cardiff City and Wolves, a legacy of relegation from the Premiership. This is a resolutely mid-table budget which looks to in contrast to the aspirations of a club who should be fighting for promotion. What is quite interesting is that Leeds are also behind the likes of Birmingham City, Nottingham Forest and Middlesborough, whilst only being slightly ahead of Crystal Palace and Bristol City, all this for a club generating revenue twice as high as these clubs.

Now it is perfectly reasonable that these other clubs may be taking considerable risks with their finances, something which Leeds are not willing to do, and for the likes of Middlesborough, Nottingham Forest and Bristol City the losses are higher, but not to the extent we would expect for clubs operating higher wage bills with lower commercial revenue (somewhere in the region of £5m higher losses for clubs with a turnover ca. £10-15m lower). In addition, Birmingham and Crystal Palace actually had lower losses or even a profit in Crystal Palace’s case.

This is further underpinned by the wage to turnover ratio, a key metric for the health of most football clubs. Based on this metric, Leeds have the third lowest wage to turnover ratio within the Championship at around 68%. This is well within sustainable levels, and is of a comparable level to that of Watford, Derby County, Peterborough and Blackpool. Therein lies one of the key issues with Leeds United. How can a club with the highest turnovers in the Championship, operating with a wage budget of that of a mid-table Championship club, still be generating such significant losses? The key element is the “other costs” of the club. Leeds have the highest amount of “other costs” in comparison to other Championship clubs, and almost double in comparison to clubs such as Cardiff City and Leicester City. The growth in this cost element has been phenomenal since 2008.

Leeds’ accounts are notoriously opaque as to what these “Other Costs” are. For the purposes of this exercise I suggest stripping out an amount for rent which I have assumed has grown from £2m in 2008 at 3% p.a. This should make it easier to identify in terms of the split of costs and in absolute amounts. The question on the lips of all Leeds fans should be, what are these costs, and why have they increased by 210% since 2008, vastly outstripping the growth in wages or turnover? Ultimately, we don’t know. Press speculation has suggested “exorbitant” legal costs being charged to the club, alongside items such as private jet contracts. It remains to be seen what else could be included in there but what this does suggest is that Leeds has been run with an approach to executive expenditure more akin to that of a FTSE 100 company with a £1bn turnover, than that of a Championship club with a turnover of £30m. It is therefore important for the club to sort this element out, which will rapidly feed through to an improvement in the profitability of the football club.

Cellino therefore faces quite a challenge to improve the profitability of the club. In my view this requires the following steps:

1) Buyback Elland Road and Thorpe Arch: The sales of Elland Road and Thorpe Arch in 2004 were a necessary evil in order to ensure the survival of the football club at that time. A decade later, and after every owner or potential owner having promised to buy them back, we are still paying an exorbitant level of rent. To improve the profitability of the club, it is crucial that Cellino becomes the first owner to fulfil this promise.

2) Reduction in overheads: Leeds are the biggest club in the Championship in terms of turnover, and have one of the lowest wage to turnover ratios in the division. Based on this, it is clear that it isn’t the wage bill which is a drag on the club’s profitability. In fact it is the other costs related to the club which are acting as a millstone around it’s neck. It is of the utmost importance that Cellino gets to grips with the profligacy of previous regimes and cuts this back. I would argue that on a wage to turnover basis, with a club aiming to achieve promotion to the Premier League, the club actually should be showing more ambition, especially given we would expect the turnover to increase over this season (given the average attendance has increased by ca. 25% since these accounts). A well run club should be able to run at a wage to turnover ratio of 70-75%, and I see no reason why Leeds shouldn’t have that as a medium term goal.

3) Boost turnover: The era of Financial Fair Play will over the medium term, mean that clubs with the biggest turnovers and who are run sustainably, will achieve promotion. Leeds, as the biggest club on a turnover basis by a substantial element should effectively use this to “bully” the other teams in the division. To my mind this doesn’t mean increasing ticket prices, Leeds fans already pay some of the highest prices in the football leagues, but instead it requires the club to maintain the likes of “Leeds for Less”, one of the few positives from the GFH era, which helped to provide a boost to attendance, likely increased expenditure on club merchandise, re-engaged the club with the city after Ken Bates, and introduced a new generation to Leeds.

Subject to getting points 1 & 2 sorted, this to my mind, requires boosting attendances up towards 29,000, which was our attendance in the first year in the Championship. At these levels, and with some resolution to the above points, we should start to be generating some reasonable profits which will undoubtedly feedback through to squad investment and allow us to compete effectively for the best players.

4) Squad investment: The immediate output of this needs to be a restructure of the squad over the summer. In order to maintain or increase attendances, Cellino needs to create optimism and boost the performance on the pitch. This will require investment and expenditure on good quality signings. Leeds have had a long history of not investing effectively on the pitch, relying on free signings, older players, and a number of loan signings. Increased squad investment doesn’t necessarily need to result in an increase in the overall wage bill, but certainly a reallocation of resources and a better use of the budget. Cellino and the football management team need to start creating a sustainable squad base for next season, and then a medium term plan for investment. This requires stability and continuity at the heart of the club’s hierarchy.

“Now I’m driving the bus. Now the bus is ours and we have to run the bus.”

GFH inherited a rudderless oil tanker, which this blogger said at the time would require substantial time to turn around and get back on the right track. As has become apparent over the past few weeks, the oil tanker is not only rudderless, but also listing heavily to one side. In order for Cellino to turn Leeds into a success, it will require a substantial amount of investment, but also time. We have effectively lost a season under the mis-management of GFH and it is up to Cellino to plan ahead, not only for next season but also over a medium term (3 years in my view) horizon. In the short term this will require investment in the playing squad and in meeting our operational losses, as well as a period of stability off the pitch.

Over the longer term, it will require some expert management, with Cellino bringing his financial management skills from Cagliari (a small but financially well-run club) to Leeds. The excess of previous regimes needs to be pruned, and it is only at that juncture that Leeds will have the sustainable platform to grow and challenge for promotion. The good news for Cellino? He has inherited one of the largest and most passionate fan bases in the UK. This will ultimately lead to the financial success of the club provided it is nurtured and grown effectively over the coming seasons. This will require more than going for a pint down the Old Peacock with the fans, and time will tell as to whether Cellino has the aptitude and patience to make this work.

“Marciare su insieme?” Time will tell as to whether this will truly be the case and Leeds will finally make the long overdue journey back to our rightful home.

George Dyer â€" @ole1985 on Twitter
 

http://leechapmanssofa.wordpress.com/2014/04/14/george-dyer-does-leeds-united-finance/
Min første Leeds-kamp:
Strømsgodset vs Leeds, 19.september 1973

Asbjørn

Quote from: Promotion 2010 on April 14, 2014, 12:12:33
TILTAK SOM IFØLGE EKSPERTENE BØR GJØRES:

George Dyer does Leeds United finance.

http://leechapmanssofa.wordpress.com/2014/04/14/george-dyer-does-leeds-united-finance/


Og her er grafen har referer til:


Det er altså, ifølge George Dyer, 'other costs' det bør gjøres noe med i første omgang.
Tell me - I've got to know
Tell me - Tell me before I go
Does that flame still burn, does that fire still glow
Or has it died out and melted like the snow
Tell me  Tell me

Dylan


Leedsfan

Quote from: Promotion 2010 on May 08, 2014, 18:23:01
Kanskje bør denne inn her:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/377820/EXCLUSIVE-Leeds-Massimo-Cellino-will-sack-at-least-70-members-of-staff-at-Elland-Road

En butikk som går 10 millioner nkr i underskudd hver måned samt skylder halve verden penger må gjøre noen grep. Håper overbetalte og bortskjemte fotballspillere skjemmes..
I scored 24 goals helping my side win promotion back to the Premier League aged just 22. Then in my first season in the top flight I had bagged an impressive 15 goals by the end of January. My form earned me an England call-up. Am I a £35m striker? No. I am Michael Ricketts, February 2002.

Promotion 2010

Min første Leeds-kamp:
Strømsgodset vs Leeds, 19.september 1973

Giske

Klubbens historie er veldig viktig den, men må ikke stå i veien for fremtiden! En klubb som taper en mill pund i mnd må ta grep.

Gufrias

Hekta på Leeds siden 1974

marve

Quote from: Gufrias on May 10, 2014, 07:22:16
Hjertet sier nei, hjernen sier ja
Samme her
Men kan fort bli bråk av dette .
 

h.b

Quote from: Promotion 2010 on May 10, 2014, 00:09:30
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/378132/EXCLUSIVE-Leeds-fans-furious-with-Massimo-Cellino-over-his-plans-to-sack-club-legends


Lorimer, Gray og Matteo på vei ut!   ???

Er de ikke viktige for fremtiden til klubben. Ja da bør de ut. Tullete å betale lønninger til has been spillere på grunn av at de har et nevn fra før

GeirO

MOT