Skrevet av Emne: Tema: Den store spillestil-tråden!  (Lest 150311 ganger)

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Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil tråden!
« Svar #750 på: Februar 18, 2021, 18:51:06 »
Spør du Marcelo om Leeds driver mannsmarkering?

Neineeeiii, er svaret :D :D :D

Adama Traore has completed more successful dribbles and take-ons than any other player in the Premier League so far this season? How difficult is a player like that to defend against, especially when you play a man-marking system?

We don’t play a system where it’s man-to-man marking. We put a defender in the positions where an opponent puts an attacker. If the attacker abandons that position for another attacker to occupy it, if possible we change the markers to avoid the marker following. But when this happens quickly during an action it’s better to follow the man than leave him to one of your team-mates. I believe, fundamentally, Traore is a player who likes to play out wide on the wings. If he dominates the ball on his side he’s difficult to stop, so whoever’s marking him will need some support.
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Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil tråden!
« Svar #751 på: Februar 20, 2021, 11:31:59 »
Jeg registrerte i går at Meslier spilte på en helt annen måte enn i kampen mot Arsenal.

Der det var fare for å komme i trøbbel ved å prøve å spille seg ut, slo han langt.

Har Bielsa (endelig) innsett, etter tabben mot Arsenal, at det er fornuftig å spille på det sikre fremfor at man på død og liv skal spille seg ut med korte (og ofte) risikofylte pasninger.

Jeg håper virkelig det, og jeg antar at jeg har støtte av flere her inne.
Super Leeds since 1968

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Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil tråden!
« Svar #752 på: Februar 20, 2021, 11:44:02 »
Jeg registrerte i går at Meslier spilte på en helt annen måte enn i kampen mot Arsenal.

Der det var fare for å komme i trøbbel ved å prøve å spille seg ut, slo han langt.

Har Bielsa (endelig) innsett, etter tabben mot Arsenal, at det er fornuftig å spille på det sikre fremfor at man på død og liv skal spille seg ut med korte (og ofte) risikofylte pasninger.

Jeg håper virkelig det, og jeg antar at jeg har støtte av flere her inne.
Ved pause gårsdagens kamptråd skrev NT følgende:
I løpet av 1 omgang har Meslier satt igang spillet med 12 korte og 6 lange. Av de 5 første var 4 lange. Synes det er bedre valg og opplever det blir bedre avstander før man slipper ut kort ball.

Det er vel et tydelig signal på at trenerne har iverksatt tiltak for at Leeds sitt grunnspill fortsatt skal fungere.
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raggen

Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil tråden!
« Svar #753 på: Februar 20, 2021, 12:46:56 »
Jeg registrerte i går at Meslier spilte på en helt annen måte enn i kampen mot Arsenal.

Der det var fare for å komme i trøbbel ved å prøve å spille seg ut, slo han langt.

Har Bielsa (endelig) innsett, etter tabben mot Arsenal, at det er fornuftig å spille på det sikre fremfor at man på død og liv skal spille seg ut med korte (og ofte) risikofylte pasninger.

Jeg håper virkelig det, og jeg antar at jeg har støtte av flere her inne.
Ved pause gårsdagens kamptråd skrev NT følgende:
I løpet av 1 omgang har Meslier satt igang spillet med 12 korte og 6 lange. Av de 5 første var 4 lange. Synes det er bedre valg og opplever det blir bedre avstander før man slipper ut kort ball.

Det er vel et tydelig signal på at trenerne har iverksatt tiltak for at Leeds sitt grunnspill fortsatt skal fungere.

NÅ var vel ikke wolves presset like høyt og pressende som Arsenal heller men fint og lese at Meslier(Bielsa) ikke er helt låst i filosofien
Forever Leeds United!!!!!!!!

Eriksen55

Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil tråden!
« Svar #754 på: Februar 20, 2021, 14:43:18 »
Jeg registrerte i går at Meslier spilte på en helt annen måte enn i kampen mot Arsenal.

Der det var fare for å komme i trøbbel ved å prøve å spille seg ut, slo han langt.

Har Bielsa (endelig) innsett, etter tabben mot Arsenal, at det er fornuftig å spille på det sikre fremfor at man på død og liv skal spille seg ut med korte (og ofte) risikofylte pasninger.

Jeg håper virkelig det, og jeg antar at jeg har støtte av flere her inne.
Ved pause gårsdagens kamptråd skrev NT følgende:
I løpet av 1 omgang har Meslier satt igang spillet med 12 korte og 6 lange. Av de 5 første var 4 lange. Synes det er bedre valg og opplever det blir bedre avstander før man slipper ut kort ball.

Det er vel et tydelig signal på at trenerne har iverksatt tiltak for at Leeds sitt grunnspill fortsatt skal fungere.

NÅ var vel ikke wolves presset like høyt og pressende som Arsenal heller men fint og lese at Meslier(Bielsa) ikke er helt låst i filosofien

Det handler vel om å finne en balanse. Man trenger ikke spille Bielsaball 100 % i enhver situasjon. Kanskje man kan nøye seg med å klarere og gjøre det litt enklere i noen situasjoner. De forandringene syntes jeg vi har sett. Litt mer kynisme i noen pressede situasjoner, og nå i går Meslier som slo langt når det var nødvendig. Jeg personlig elsker spillestilen og risikoen vi tar. Derfor har jeg lite problemer med noen av de feilene vi blir straffet hardt på. Sånn må man regne. Heller noen feil, enn å spille som Wolves!

Selv om Bielsa er en stabukk, så vil han ikke tape. Prinsippene viker han nok ikke på, men han justerer nok når det trengs.

Med mer kvalitet inn og noe daukjøtt ut neste år, så er jeg sikker på at vi ser at mangelen på rotasjon skyldtes mangel på kvalitet i bredden, og ikke at Bielsa er så sta. Helt sikker på at Costa,Roberts, Davis, Poveda og Shackleton kun er nødløsninger. Hadde dem vært bedre hadde dem spilt mer enn bare når alle andre alternativer er ute. Bare å se resultatene når for mange av disse må spille.

Heldigvis går ryktene om at Bielsa er svært positiv til å bli, og at han er innvolvert i planleggingen av sommerns kjøp. Med mer kvalitet inn på både banen og benk, så vil Bielsaball  også fungere enda bedre enn kun innimellom i PL. Gleder meg!

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Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil tråden!
« Svar #755 på: Juni 28, 2021, 16:44:03 »
LOL. :D

Slik opplever spillerne det!

Football Daily
@footballdaily

🗣 "Marcelo changes the formation every time the other team does, we could change formation 10 times in the game."

#ENG Kalvin Phillips on how working under Marcelo Bielsa at Leeds United has helped him play in different systems & positions
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Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil tråden!
« Svar #756 på: Oktober 23, 2021, 23:53:45 »
3-3-1-3-formasjonen hos oss har ikke så dårlig statistikk som mange vil tro :o

The Athletic og Phil Hay har sett på 4-1-4-1 kontra 3-3-1-3 og sistnevnte kommer ikke så dårlig ut:

If there is a perception that Leeds cope less well in a 3-3-1-3 — something that would be understandable given how infrequently they line up like that — then results data says otherwise. Bielsa has only turned to a three-man defence 17 times in all his fixtures as manager but Leeds have won three quarters of them with a strong goal difference and an average of 2.41 points per game. The caveat is that the clubs who field two strikers up front are often among the weaker opponents. In the Premier League, Leeds have gone three at the back against Southampton and Burnley three times each and Sheffield United, Crystal Palace and West Bromwich Albion once. Everton are the only team with genuine top-six aspirations who have forced Bielsa to bend from 4-1-4-1.

Skjønt 4-1-4-1 er altså benyttet over 100 ganger:
There is no argument about the effectiveness of Bielsa’s 4-1-4-1. He has lined up his team like that in more than 100 league matches and his record before this season was beyond reproach.

https://theathletic.co.uk/2899346/2021/10/22/which-formation-suits-leeds-best-4-1-4-1-or-3-3-1-3/
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HåvardK

Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil tråden!
« Svar #757 på: Oktober 24, 2021, 10:36:11 »
Den forvandlingen vi gikk gjennom i går sammenlignet med tidligere kamper denne sesongen, var for så vidt uavhengig av formasjon. Men for min del var det et kjempepoeng at Pascal plutselig fikset DM-rollen. Spillbar, vilje til å ta ansvar, fin miks mellom trygge pasninger og med risiko og tilstrekkelig tempo. Fysikk og duellstyrke vet vi jo at han har. Kalvin må jo spille når han kan, men det hadde kanskje ikke vært så dumt å la Pascal få prøve seg mer i denne rollen.

leedslife

Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil tråden!
« Svar #758 på: Oktober 24, 2021, 10:58:26 »
Den forvandlingen vi gikk gjennom i går sammenlignet med tidligere kamper denne sesongen, var for så vidt uavhengig av formasjon. Men for min del var det et kjempepoeng at Pascal plutselig fikset DM-rollen. Spillbar, vilje til å ta ansvar, fin miks mellom trygge pasninger og med risiko og tilstrekkelig tempo. Fysikk og duellstyrke vet vi jo at han har. Kalvin må jo spille når han kan, men det hadde kanskje ikke vært så dumt å la Pascal få prøve seg mer i denne rollen.
Synes han var svak i første omgang, men sammen med resten av laget god i andre. Hjalp nok at vi spilte wolves veldig lave i andre omgang og det skal han ha kred for.
Men problene oppstår når lag står høyt og låser oss. Det gjorde wolves bedre i første omgang enn andre. De valgte å forsvare eget mål og drepe oss på kontring.

Synes han er temposvak, lite mobil, mangler tilstedeværelse og mangler vision for at han skal være et godt alternativ til når vår beste og viktigste spiller er ute.
Her må det handles. Helt vilt at klubben ikke har gjort det. All verdens statistikk sier vi sliter Big time uten Kalvin.
Skal sies at White og i sin tid slet med å løse den rollen og det en langt bedre spiller enn Strujik.

Ellers synes jeg Cooper igjen i går og Dallas i andre var veldig gode.
Er noen nøkkelsituasjoner Dallas går inn med hud og hår som smitter over på andre. Det var gledelig det. For vi er veldig avhengige at den gjengen fortsetter nå for det smitter over på de andre og spesielt de unge.
Får jo satt spillere med x faktor som Gelhart, Summerville etc opp i langt bedre posisjoner enn feks mot Soton.
« Siste redigering: Oktober 24, 2021, 11:08:33 av leedslife »

Lucas the Kop Cat

Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil tråden!
« Svar #759 på: Oktober 24, 2021, 11:27:15 »
Tror vi i år har sett hvor mye Bamford betyr for lagets prestasjoner når det gjelder press. Rodrigo ikke samme kaliber. Bamfords press og jobb tilbake drar med seg resten. I år har vi, ihvertfall ikke frem til Wolves-kampen, ikke klart som lag å være like tett opp i motstanderen. Vi er avhengig av det og at ingen slutter unna for å få brudd for og unngå brudd i mot.

leedslife

Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil tråden!
« Svar #760 på: Oktober 24, 2021, 11:43:43 »
Tror vi i år har sett hvor mye Bamford betyr for lagets prestasjoner når det gjelder press. Rodrigo ikke samme kaliber. Bamfords press og jobb tilbake drar med seg resten. I år har vi, ihvertfall ikke frem til Wolves-kampen, ikke klart som lag å være like tett opp i motstanderen. Vi er avhengig av det og at ingen slutter unna for å få brudd for og unngå brudd i mot.
👌

HåvardK

Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil tråden!
« Svar #761 på: Oktober 24, 2021, 13:11:46 »
Den forvandlingen vi gikk gjennom i går sammenlignet med tidligere kamper denne sesongen, var for så vidt uavhengig av formasjon. Men for min del var det et kjempepoeng at Pascal plutselig fikset DM-rollen. Spillbar, vilje til å ta ansvar, fin miks mellom trygge pasninger og med risiko og tilstrekkelig tempo. Fysikk og duellstyrke vet vi jo at han har. Kalvin må jo spille når han kan, men det hadde kanskje ikke vært så dumt å la Pascal få prøve seg mer i denne rollen.
Synes han var svak i første omgang, men sammen med resten av laget god i andre. Hjalp nok at vi spilte wolves veldig lave i andre omgang og det skal han ha kred for.
Men problene oppstår når lag står høyt og låser oss. Det gjorde wolves bedre i første omgang enn andre. De valgte å forsvare eget mål og drepe oss på kontring.

Synes han er temposvak, lite mobil, mangler tilstedeværelse og mangler vision for at han skal være et godt alternativ til når vår beste og viktigste spiller er ute.
Her må det handles. Helt vilt at klubben ikke har gjort det. All verdens statistikk sier vi sliter Big time uten Kalvin.
Skal sies at White og i sin tid slet med å løse den rollen og det en langt bedre spiller enn Strujik.

Ellers synes jeg Cooper igjen i går og Dallas i andre var veldig gode.
Er noen nøkkelsituasjoner Dallas går inn med hud og hår som smitter over på andre. Det var gledelig det. For vi er veldig avhengige at den gjengen fortsetter nå for det smitter over på de andre og spesielt de unge.
Får jo satt spillere med x faktor som Gelhart, Summerville etc opp i langt bedre posisjoner enn feks mot Soton.
JA, det er mulig at jeg var i overkant euforisk og preget av den enorme snuoperasjonen. Men fastholder at han fikk en god opplevelse som DM i andre omgang, sannsynligvis som resultat av at hele laget hevet seg. Samtidig så jeg en vilje til å ville ha ball og å involvere seg som jeg har savnet tidligere. Det er selvsagt langt opp til Kalvin fortsatt, og jeg er enig i at vi bør lete etter andre alternativ. Bate ligner jo som spillertype, men han får vi nok ikke se på A-laget på denne siden av 2024.

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Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil-tråden!
« Svar #762 på: Juni 04, 2022, 17:32:48 »
Jesse Marsch liker helst å spille ganske smalt, med en 4-2-2-2 formasjon som mest brukt i Østerrike.
Med Leeds fungerte det ikke så godt i starten og vi så mest til 4-2-3-1 egentlig.
Men nå med en pre season å øve i og et par spillere inn som allerede kjenner Marsch-modellen er det ventet at vi vil øve på 4-2-2-2 fremover.

Leeds-Live prøver å forklare:

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/jesse-marschs-favoured-formation-likely-24123489

Why Jesse Marsch's favoured formation is likely to return in Leeds United pre-season
Leeds first lined up in a 4-2-2-2 under Jesse Marsch

On his arrival at Leeds United, Jesse Marsch was careful to stress that his 'principles' of playing would be more important than the side adapting to particular formations that they weren't used to playing under the previous manager, Marcelo Bielsa. With the Argentine at the helm, Leeds were best known for attacking in 4-1-4-1 and 3-3-1-3 shapes and utilising width in their attacks.

However, Marsch prefers narrowness, and the formations he favours reflect that, as he is best known for lining his teams up in a 4-2-2-2. In fact, according to Transfermarkt, RB Salzburg played the formation for every league game in the 2020/21 season. In the early games of his reign at Leeds, that's how the Whites lined up. With Jack Harrison and Raphinha playing behind Rodrigo and Dan James in the attacking four and with Adam Forshaw and Mateusz Klich playing as the deeper midfield two.

As time went on, that formation became more of a 4-2-3-1, with Raphinha and Harrison playing wider. That formation ended up being more common by the end of the season, apart from the period of three games where Leeds faced Manchester City, Arsenal and Chelsea and they attempted to make the game stodgy for their opponents with a three at the back formation, which proved unsuccessful.

Although Leeds ultimately stayed up and Marsch achieved his first goal as manager of the club, there was a sense that the American compromised on much of his playing philosophy the moment he moved away from the 4-2-2-2. That's why it seems mostly likely that it will return in pre-season, as Leeds will be able to work on it properly without the stress of relegation hanging over them. They can also focus on bringing in players who are more comfortable in the positions required and have already done with their first signing, as Brenden Aaronson played on the left side of the attacking midfield two when Marsch lined up his Salzburg side in the formation.

During the run to the end of the season, there was a growing sense amongst Leeds' fan base that Marsch's penchant for narrowness would not work well in the Premier League and that it was leading to 'ugly' football, as seen in the Watford win and the draw at Crystal Palace. Therefore, many on social media expressed relief to see the team playing with more width as they picked up four points in their final two matches to stay up.

It's important to note that a compact shape in possession is vital to the way Marsch wants to play. In this video from Coaches' Voice, Leeds' manager explains the importance of the front four moving as a unit, with and without the ball.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idkb0c8-W58
That's because pressing is such a vital part of the way the American wants his team to play. In fact, it's seen as one of the primary ways in which the team should be looking to score goals, thanks to Marsch's 'pressing to score' philosophy.

In fact, Marsch is happy for his team to be very aggressive with the ball and not worry too much about turning it over to the opposition, because when they do, they have an opportunity to win it back quickly and create a goalscoring chance out of the chaos. In order to do that, the players need to be as close together as possible so that they can hunt the ball in a pack of four, with the near-side full back and deep midfielders pushing up to squeeze the space and make it more difficult for the opposition to escape.

The 4-2-3-1 formation can work well in that regard and it is easy to shift between that shape and the 4-2-2-2 as it simply requires one of the wider players to join the lone striker to make a front two, or for the central attacking midfielder to do so and vice versa. However, the 4-2-2-2 is the best shape for winning the ball in the centre, as if Leeds can manipulate their opponents to move the ball into the middle of the pitch, they have numerical superiority and can 'fall' on the ball with the six players in midfield and attack.

However, if Marsch compromises on narrowness and attacks with more width, the pressing style he has worked with over his career thus far will be much less effective. Having wingers holding position wide on the touchline would mean they were too far away to squeeze the space, should the ball be lost in central areas, which is where Marsch wants the ball to be the majority of the time. This is due to the fact that the central area just outside the penalty area (sometimes referred to as Zone 14) is the position statistically proven to lead to most goalscoring chances.

In terms of the players Leeds already have in the squad who could still adapt to the formation, Harrison has looked comfortable playing more centrally and his assist for the goal Joe Gelhardt 'scored' on the final day demonstrated that he could work well in compact areas. As Raphinha seems most likely to leave, Leeds could line up with a front four of Aaronson, Harrsion, Gelhardt and Bamford in a 4-2-2-2, before any further attacking signings are considered. There is no denying that the games against Watford and Palace were poor for Leeds, in terms of their play in possession. However, with that attacking four it could be far more promising and with a pre-season to work on the combinations and movements required, it could be much more effective and easy on the eye.

As such, the summer will be the best time to bring the formation back. Should Marsch choose to go another way and utilise more natural width, it will be a departure for him from what he has done previously. Whether he can come up with a new game-model in a short space of time seems unlikely. In that case, narrowness will likely return and with it, his favoured formation.
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lojosang

Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil-tråden!
« Svar #763 på: Juni 08, 2022, 21:27:14 »
Jesse Marsch liker helst å spille ganske smalt, med en 4-2-2-2 formasjon som mest brukt i Østerrike.
Med Leeds fungerte det ikke så godt i starten og vi så mest til 4-2-3-1 egentlig.
Men nå med en pre season å øve i og et par spillere inn som allerede kjenner Marsch-modellen er det ventet at vi vil øve på 4-2-2-2 fremover.

Leeds-Live prøver å forklare:

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/jesse-marschs-favoured-formation-likely-24123489

Why Jesse Marsch's favoured formation is likely to return in Leeds United pre-season
Leeds first lined up in a 4-2-2-2 under Jesse Marsch

On his arrival at Leeds United, Jesse Marsch was careful to stress that his 'principles' of playing would be more important than the side adapting to particular formations that they weren't used to playing under the previous manager, Marcelo Bielsa. With the Argentine at the helm, Leeds were best known for attacking in 4-1-4-1 and 3-3-1-3 shapes and utilising width in their attacks.

However, Marsch prefers narrowness, and the formations he favours reflect that, as he is best known for lining his teams up in a 4-2-2-2. In fact, according to Transfermarkt, RB Salzburg played the formation for every league game in the 2020/21 season. In the early games of his reign at Leeds, that's how the Whites lined up. With Jack Harrison and Raphinha playing behind Rodrigo and Dan James in the attacking four and with Adam Forshaw and Mateusz Klich playing as the deeper midfield two.

As time went on, that formation became more of a 4-2-3-1, with Raphinha and Harrison playing wider. That formation ended up being more common by the end of the season, apart from the period of three games where Leeds faced Manchester City, Arsenal and Chelsea and they attempted to make the game stodgy for their opponents with a three at the back formation, which proved unsuccessful.

Although Leeds ultimately stayed up and Marsch achieved his first goal as manager of the club, there was a sense that the American compromised on much of his playing philosophy the moment he moved away from the 4-2-2-2. That's why it seems mostly likely that it will return in pre-season, as Leeds will be able to work on it properly without the stress of relegation hanging over them. They can also focus on bringing in players who are more comfortable in the positions required and have already done with their first signing, as Brenden Aaronson played on the left side of the attacking midfield two when Marsch lined up his Salzburg side in the formation.

During the run to the end of the season, there was a growing sense amongst Leeds' fan base that Marsch's penchant for narrowness would not work well in the Premier League and that it was leading to 'ugly' football, as seen in the Watford win and the draw at Crystal Palace. Therefore, many on social media expressed relief to see the team playing with more width as they picked up four points in their final two matches to stay up.

It's important to note that a compact shape in possession is vital to the way Marsch wants to play. In this video from Coaches' Voice, Leeds' manager explains the importance of the front four moving as a unit, with and without the ball.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idkb0c8-W58
That's because pressing is such a vital part of the way the American wants his team to play. In fact, it's seen as one of the primary ways in which the team should be looking to score goals, thanks to Marsch's 'pressing to score' philosophy.

In fact, Marsch is happy for his team to be very aggressive with the ball and not worry too much about turning it over to the opposition, because when they do, they have an opportunity to win it back quickly and create a goalscoring chance out of the chaos. In order to do that, the players need to be as close together as possible so that they can hunt the ball in a pack of four, with the near-side full back and deep midfielders pushing up to squeeze the space and make it more difficult for the opposition to escape.

The 4-2-3-1 formation can work well in that regard and it is easy to shift between that shape and the 4-2-2-2 as it simply requires one of the wider players to join the lone striker to make a front two, or for the central attacking midfielder to do so and vice versa. However, the 4-2-2-2 is the best shape for winning the ball in the centre, as if Leeds can manipulate their opponents to move the ball into the middle of the pitch, they have numerical superiority and can 'fall' on the ball with the six players in midfield and attack.

However, if Marsch compromises on narrowness and attacks with more width, the pressing style he has worked with over his career thus far will be much less effective. Having wingers holding position wide on the touchline would mean they were too far away to squeeze the space, should the ball be lost in central areas, which is where Marsch wants the ball to be the majority of the time. This is due to the fact that the central area just outside the penalty area (sometimes referred to as Zone 14) is the position statistically proven to lead to most goalscoring chances.

In terms of the players Leeds already have in the squad who could still adapt to the formation, Harrison has looked comfortable playing more centrally and his assist for the goal Joe Gelhardt 'scored' on the final day demonstrated that he could work well in compact areas. As Raphinha seems most likely to leave, Leeds could line up with a front four of Aaronson, Harrsion, Gelhardt and Bamford in a 4-2-2-2, before any further attacking signings are considered. There is no denying that the games against Watford and Palace were poor for Leeds, in terms of their play in possession. However, with that attacking four it could be far more promising and with a pre-season to work on the combinations and movements required, it could be much more effective and easy on the eye.

As such, the summer will be the best time to bring the formation back. Should Marsch choose to go another way and utilise more natural width, it will be a departure for him from what he has done previously. Whether he can come up with a new game-model in a short space of time seems unlikely. In that case, narrowness will likely return and with it, his favoured formation.
Jeg må innrømme at jeg syns dette høres aldeles grusomt ut.

Sent fra min SM-A226B via Tapatalk

- Leif Olav

HåvardK

Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil-tråden!
« Svar #764 på: Juni 09, 2022, 10:41:19 »
Jesse Marsch liker helst å spille ganske smalt, med en 4-2-2-2 formasjon som mest brukt i Østerrike.
Med Leeds fungerte det ikke så godt i starten og vi så mest til 4-2-3-1 egentlig.
Men nå med en pre season å øve i og et par spillere inn som allerede kjenner Marsch-modellen er det ventet at vi vil øve på 4-2-2-2 fremover.

Leeds-Live prøver å forklare:

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/jesse-marschs-favoured-formation-likely-24123489

Why Jesse Marsch's favoured formation is likely to return in Leeds United pre-season
Leeds first lined up in a 4-2-2-2 under Jesse Marsch

On his arrival at Leeds United, Jesse Marsch was careful to stress that his 'principles' of playing would be more important than the side adapting to particular formations that they weren't used to playing under the previous manager, Marcelo Bielsa. With the Argentine at the helm, Leeds were best known for attacking in 4-1-4-1 and 3-3-1-3 shapes and utilising width in their attacks.

However, Marsch prefers narrowness, and the formations he favours reflect that, as he is best known for lining his teams up in a 4-2-2-2. In fact, according to Transfermarkt, RB Salzburg played the formation for every league game in the 2020/21 season. In the early games of his reign at Leeds, that's how the Whites lined up. With Jack Harrison and Raphinha playing behind Rodrigo and Dan James in the attacking four and with Adam Forshaw and Mateusz Klich playing as the deeper midfield two.

As time went on, that formation became more of a 4-2-3-1, with Raphinha and Harrison playing wider. That formation ended up being more common by the end of the season, apart from the period of three games where Leeds faced Manchester City, Arsenal and Chelsea and they attempted to make the game stodgy for their opponents with a three at the back formation, which proved unsuccessful.

Although Leeds ultimately stayed up and Marsch achieved his first goal as manager of the club, there was a sense that the American compromised on much of his playing philosophy the moment he moved away from the 4-2-2-2. That's why it seems mostly likely that it will return in pre-season, as Leeds will be able to work on it properly without the stress of relegation hanging over them. They can also focus on bringing in players who are more comfortable in the positions required and have already done with their first signing, as Brenden Aaronson played on the left side of the attacking midfield two when Marsch lined up his Salzburg side in the formation.

During the run to the end of the season, there was a growing sense amongst Leeds' fan base that Marsch's penchant for narrowness would not work well in the Premier League and that it was leading to 'ugly' football, as seen in the Watford win and the draw at Crystal Palace. Therefore, many on social media expressed relief to see the team playing with more width as they picked up four points in their final two matches to stay up.

It's important to note that a compact shape in possession is vital to the way Marsch wants to play. In this video from Coaches' Voice, Leeds' manager explains the importance of the front four moving as a unit, with and without the ball.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idkb0c8-W58
That's because pressing is such a vital part of the way the American wants his team to play. In fact, it's seen as one of the primary ways in which the team should be looking to score goals, thanks to Marsch's 'pressing to score' philosophy.

In fact, Marsch is happy for his team to be very aggressive with the ball and not worry too much about turning it over to the opposition, because when they do, they have an opportunity to win it back quickly and create a goalscoring chance out of the chaos. In order to do that, the players need to be as close together as possible so that they can hunt the ball in a pack of four, with the near-side full back and deep midfielders pushing up to squeeze the space and make it more difficult for the opposition to escape.

The 4-2-3-1 formation can work well in that regard and it is easy to shift between that shape and the 4-2-2-2 as it simply requires one of the wider players to join the lone striker to make a front two, or for the central attacking midfielder to do so and vice versa. However, the 4-2-2-2 is the best shape for winning the ball in the centre, as if Leeds can manipulate their opponents to move the ball into the middle of the pitch, they have numerical superiority and can 'fall' on the ball with the six players in midfield and attack.

However, if Marsch compromises on narrowness and attacks with more width, the pressing style he has worked with over his career thus far will be much less effective. Having wingers holding position wide on the touchline would mean they were too far away to squeeze the space, should the ball be lost in central areas, which is where Marsch wants the ball to be the majority of the time. This is due to the fact that the central area just outside the penalty area (sometimes referred to as Zone 14) is the position statistically proven to lead to most goalscoring chances.

In terms of the players Leeds already have in the squad who could still adapt to the formation, Harrison has looked comfortable playing more centrally and his assist for the goal Joe Gelhardt 'scored' on the final day demonstrated that he could work well in compact areas. As Raphinha seems most likely to leave, Leeds could line up with a front four of Aaronson, Harrsion, Gelhardt and Bamford in a 4-2-2-2, before any further attacking signings are considered. There is no denying that the games against Watford and Palace were poor for Leeds, in terms of their play in possession. However, with that attacking four it could be far more promising and with a pre-season to work on the combinations and movements required, it could be much more effective and easy on the eye.

As such, the summer will be the best time to bring the formation back. Should Marsch choose to go another way and utilise more natural width, it will be a departure for him from what he has done previously. Whether he can come up with a new game-model in a short space of time seems unlikely. In that case, narrowness will likely return and with it, his favoured formation.
Jeg må innrømme at jeg syns dette høres aldeles grusomt ut.

Sent fra min SM-A226B via Tapatalk
Du er ikke alene om det. Jeg begynner å innse at det er utopisk å tenke at vi i overskuelig fremtid skal kunne oppleve så fantastisk fotball som Bielsaball på sitt beste. Samtidig greier jeg ikke å se for meg hvordan denne "narrownessen" er ment å skulle fungere i praksis, og er derfor veldig spent på hvordan vi vil se ut i august. Kanskje får vi noen svar i pre-season?

lowfields

Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil-tråden!
« Svar #765 på: Juni 09, 2022, 11:03:44 »
"It's important to note that a compact shape in possession is vital to the way Marsch wants to play. In this video from Coaches' Voice, Leeds' manager explains the importance of the front four moving as a unit, with and without the ball."

Vi har visst endt opp med Paul Heckingbotttom - Ver 2.0
"Welcome to, arguably, the noisiest ground in England"

Fantasyland

Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil-tråden!
« Svar #766 på: Juni 09, 2022, 11:08:28 »
"It's important to note that a compact shape in possession is vital to the way Marsch wants to play. In this video from Coaches' Voice, Leeds' manager explains the importance of the front four moving as a unit, with and without the ball."

Vi har visst endt opp med Paul Heckingbotttom - Ver 2.0

Som redda stumpene etter Bielsa? Gi han en sjanse nå til å vise hva han kan få til når han får bygd eget lag med egne spillere. Etter pre-season burde det være langt tydeligere i hvilken retning dette bærer.

leedslife

Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil-tråden!
« Svar #767 på: Juni 09, 2022, 11:11:44 »
Jesse Marsch liker helst å spille ganske smalt, med en 4-2-2-2 formasjon som mest brukt i Østerrike.
Med Leeds fungerte det ikke så godt i starten og vi så mest til 4-2-3-1 egentlig.
Men nå med en pre season å øve i og et par spillere inn som allerede kjenner Marsch-modellen er det ventet at vi vil øve på 4-2-2-2 fremover.

Leeds-Live prøver å forklare:

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/jesse-marschs-favoured-formation-likely-24123489

Why Jesse Marsch's favoured formation is likely to return in Leeds United pre-season
Leeds first lined up in a 4-2-2-2 under Jesse Marsch

On his arrival at Leeds United, Jesse Marsch was careful to stress that his 'principles' of playing would be more important than the side adapting to particular formations that they weren't used to playing under the previous manager, Marcelo Bielsa. With the Argentine at the helm, Leeds were best known for attacking in 4-1-4-1 and 3-3-1-3 shapes and utilising width in their attacks.

However, Marsch prefers narrowness, and the formations he favours reflect that, as he is best known for lining his teams up in a 4-2-2-2. In fact, according to Transfermarkt, RB Salzburg played the formation for every league game in the 2020/21 season. In the early games of his reign at Leeds, that's how the Whites lined up. With Jack Harrison and Raphinha playing behind Rodrigo and Dan James in the attacking four and with Adam Forshaw and Mateusz Klich playing as the deeper midfield two.

As time went on, that formation became more of a 4-2-3-1, with Raphinha and Harrison playing wider. That formation ended up being more common by the end of the season, apart from the period of three games where Leeds faced Manchester City, Arsenal and Chelsea and they attempted to make the game stodgy for their opponents with a three at the back formation, which proved unsuccessful.

Although Leeds ultimately stayed up and Marsch achieved his first goal as manager of the club, there was a sense that the American compromised on much of his playing philosophy the moment he moved away from the 4-2-2-2. That's why it seems mostly likely that it will return in pre-season, as Leeds will be able to work on it properly without the stress of relegation hanging over them. They can also focus on bringing in players who are more comfortable in the positions required and have already done with their first signing, as Brenden Aaronson played on the left side of the attacking midfield two when Marsch lined up his Salzburg side in the formation.

During the run to the end of the season, there was a growing sense amongst Leeds' fan base that Marsch's penchant for narrowness would not work well in the Premier League and that it was leading to 'ugly' football, as seen in the Watford win and the draw at Crystal Palace. Therefore, many on social media expressed relief to see the team playing with more width as they picked up four points in their final two matches to stay up.

It's important to note that a compact shape in possession is vital to the way Marsch wants to play. In this video from Coaches' Voice, Leeds' manager explains the importance of the front four moving as a unit, with and without the ball.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idkb0c8-W58
That's because pressing is such a vital part of the way the American wants his team to play. In fact, it's seen as one of the primary ways in which the team should be looking to score goals, thanks to Marsch's 'pressing to score' philosophy.

In fact, Marsch is happy for his team to be very aggressive with the ball and not worry too much about turning it over to the opposition, because when they do, they have an opportunity to win it back quickly and create a goalscoring chance out of the chaos. In order to do that, the players need to be as close together as possible so that they can hunt the ball in a pack of four, with the near-side full back and deep midfielders pushing up to squeeze the space and make it more difficult for the opposition to escape.

The 4-2-3-1 formation can work well in that regard and it is easy to shift between that shape and the 4-2-2-2 as it simply requires one of the wider players to join the lone striker to make a front two, or for the central attacking midfielder to do so and vice versa. However, the 4-2-2-2 is the best shape for winning the ball in the centre, as if Leeds can manipulate their opponents to move the ball into the middle of the pitch, they have numerical superiority and can 'fall' on the ball with the six players in midfield and attack.

However, if Marsch compromises on narrowness and attacks with more width, the pressing style he has worked with over his career thus far will be much less effective. Having wingers holding position wide on the touchline would mean they were too far away to squeeze the space, should the ball be lost in central areas, which is where Marsch wants the ball to be the majority of the time. This is due to the fact that the central area just outside the penalty area (sometimes referred to as Zone 14) is the position statistically proven to lead to most goalscoring chances.

In terms of the players Leeds already have in the squad who could still adapt to the formation, Harrison has looked comfortable playing more centrally and his assist for the goal Joe Gelhardt 'scored' on the final day demonstrated that he could work well in compact areas. As Raphinha seems most likely to leave, Leeds could line up with a front four of Aaronson, Harrsion, Gelhardt and Bamford in a 4-2-2-2, before any further attacking signings are considered. There is no denying that the games against Watford and Palace were poor for Leeds, in terms of their play in possession. However, with that attacking four it could be far more promising and with a pre-season to work on the combinations and movements required, it could be much more effective and easy on the eye.

As such, the summer will be the best time to bring the formation back. Should Marsch choose to go another way and utilise more natural width, it will be a departure for him from what he has done previously. Whether he can come up with a new game-model in a short space of time seems unlikely. In that case, narrowness will likely return and with it, his favoured formation.
Jeg må innrømme at jeg syns dette høres aldeles grusomt ut.

Sent fra min SM-A226B via Tapatalk
Du er ikke alene om det. Jeg begynner å innse at det er utopisk å tenke at vi i overskuelig fremtid skal kunne oppleve så fantastisk fotball som Bielsaball på sitt beste. Samtidig greier jeg ikke å se for meg hvordan denne "narrownessen" er ment å skulle fungere i praksis, og er derfor veldig spent på hvordan vi vil se ut i august. Kanskje får vi noen svar i pre-season?
Forhåpentligvis får vi et tankesett og en fotball som vil få oss høyere opp på tabellen og kanskje litt lengre i cupene.
Jeg tror vi vil se enda mer middelmådige ut neste sesongene (ifht Bielsaball), men jeg tror det er store muligheter til at vi klatrer høyere på tabellen og etterhvert når målet, som er å etablere oss som en topp6 klubb.
Bielsaball viser jo fingeren til den kommersielle og kyniske industrien fotballen er blitt, men skal vi være med på leken over tid så må vi tilpasse oss tenker jeg. Pep sier jo at han aldri hadde klart det Bielsa fikk til med Leeds, men er det en ting som er sikkert så hadde aldri Bielsa fått til det Pep har fått til heller. Lidenskapen for fotballen er lik, måten å spille fotball på har likheter, men hvordan man bruker ressursene rundt er jo natt og dag.
Det virker på meg som vi tar vare på endel av de viktige ingrediensene ved Bielsas suksess , men så modernediserer vi det litt ifht til spillesystem, spillertyper og en annen åpenhet.
Veldig usikker på om Marsch har tyngden og personligheten til å ta dette videre, men det er beroligende at klubben fortsatt står ved modellen sin. Det har skjedd alt for mye bra de siste årene til at man skulle slått ned alt og bygd opp igjen. Det er bedre med et lite malingsstrøk som det ser ut til vi gjør nå.
Med 1-2 solide kjøp til så har han faktisk en ganske god spillerstall å velge fra akkurat nå. Spesielt sammenligner du med lagene rundt oss.
« Siste redigering: Juni 09, 2022, 11:14:45 av leedslife »

Eriksen55

Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil-tråden!
« Svar #768 på: Juni 09, 2022, 14:14:00 »
Jesse Marsch liker helst å spille ganske smalt, med en 4-2-2-2 formasjon som mest brukt i Østerrike.
Med Leeds fungerte det ikke så godt i starten og vi så mest til 4-2-3-1 egentlig.
Men nå med en pre season å øve i og et par spillere inn som allerede kjenner Marsch-modellen er det ventet at vi vil øve på 4-2-2-2 fremover.

Leeds-Live prøver å forklare:

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/jesse-marschs-favoured-formation-likely-24123489

Why Jesse Marsch's favoured formation is likely to return in Leeds United pre-season
Leeds first lined up in a 4-2-2-2 under Jesse Marsch

On his arrival at Leeds United, Jesse Marsch was careful to stress that his 'principles' of playing would be more important than the side adapting to particular formations that they weren't used to playing under the previous manager, Marcelo Bielsa. With the Argentine at the helm, Leeds were best known for attacking in 4-1-4-1 and 3-3-1-3 shapes and utilising width in their attacks.

However, Marsch prefers narrowness, and the formations he favours reflect that, as he is best known for lining his teams up in a 4-2-2-2. In fact, according to Transfermarkt, RB Salzburg played the formation for every league game in the 2020/21 season. In the early games of his reign at Leeds, that's how the Whites lined up. With Jack Harrison and Raphinha playing behind Rodrigo and Dan James in the attacking four and with Adam Forshaw and Mateusz Klich playing as the deeper midfield two.

As time went on, that formation became more of a 4-2-3-1, with Raphinha and Harrison playing wider. That formation ended up being more common by the end of the season, apart from the period of three games where Leeds faced Manchester City, Arsenal and Chelsea and they attempted to make the game stodgy for their opponents with a three at the back formation, which proved unsuccessful.

Although Leeds ultimately stayed up and Marsch achieved his first goal as manager of the club, there was a sense that the American compromised on much of his playing philosophy the moment he moved away from the 4-2-2-2. That's why it seems mostly likely that it will return in pre-season, as Leeds will be able to work on it properly without the stress of relegation hanging over them. They can also focus on bringing in players who are more comfortable in the positions required and have already done with their first signing, as Brenden Aaronson played on the left side of the attacking midfield two when Marsch lined up his Salzburg side in the formation.

During the run to the end of the season, there was a growing sense amongst Leeds' fan base that Marsch's penchant for narrowness would not work well in the Premier League and that it was leading to 'ugly' football, as seen in the Watford win and the draw at Crystal Palace. Therefore, many on social media expressed relief to see the team playing with more width as they picked up four points in their final two matches to stay up.

It's important to note that a compact shape in possession is vital to the way Marsch wants to play. In this video from Coaches' Voice, Leeds' manager explains the importance of the front four moving as a unit, with and without the ball.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idkb0c8-W58
That's because pressing is such a vital part of the way the American wants his team to play. In fact, it's seen as one of the primary ways in which the team should be looking to score goals, thanks to Marsch's 'pressing to score' philosophy.

In fact, Marsch is happy for his team to be very aggressive with the ball and not worry too much about turning it over to the opposition, because when they do, they have an opportunity to win it back quickly and create a goalscoring chance out of the chaos. In order to do that, the players need to be as close together as possible so that they can hunt the ball in a pack of four, with the near-side full back and deep midfielders pushing up to squeeze the space and make it more difficult for the opposition to escape.

The 4-2-3-1 formation can work well in that regard and it is easy to shift between that shape and the 4-2-2-2 as it simply requires one of the wider players to join the lone striker to make a front two, or for the central attacking midfielder to do so and vice versa. However, the 4-2-2-2 is the best shape for winning the ball in the centre, as if Leeds can manipulate their opponents to move the ball into the middle of the pitch, they have numerical superiority and can 'fall' on the ball with the six players in midfield and attack.

However, if Marsch compromises on narrowness and attacks with more width, the pressing style he has worked with over his career thus far will be much less effective. Having wingers holding position wide on the touchline would mean they were too far away to squeeze the space, should the ball be lost in central areas, which is where Marsch wants the ball to be the majority of the time. This is due to the fact that the central area just outside the penalty area (sometimes referred to as Zone 14) is the position statistically proven to lead to most goalscoring chances.

In terms of the players Leeds already have in the squad who could still adapt to the formation, Harrison has looked comfortable playing more centrally and his assist for the goal Joe Gelhardt 'scored' on the final day demonstrated that he could work well in compact areas. As Raphinha seems most likely to leave, Leeds could line up with a front four of Aaronson, Harrsion, Gelhardt and Bamford in a 4-2-2-2, before any further attacking signings are considered. There is no denying that the games against Watford and Palace were poor for Leeds, in terms of their play in possession. However, with that attacking four it could be far more promising and with a pre-season to work on the combinations and movements required, it could be much more effective and easy on the eye.

As such, the summer will be the best time to bring the formation back. Should Marsch choose to go another way and utilise more natural width, it will be a departure for him from what he has done previously. Whether he can come up with a new game-model in a short space of time seems unlikely. In that case, narrowness will likely return and with it, his favoured formation.
Jeg må innrømme at jeg syns dette høres aldeles grusomt ut.

Sent fra min SM-A226B via Tapatalk

Det er lov. Men hva begrunner du det med? Hva gjør at det høres så grusomt ut?

lojosang

Sv: Tema: Den store spillestil-tråden!
« Svar #769 på: Juni 09, 2022, 22:46:56 »
Jesse Marsch liker helst å spille ganske smalt, med en 4-2-2-2 formasjon som mest brukt i Østerrike.
Med Leeds fungerte det ikke så godt i starten og vi så mest til 4-2-3-1 egentlig.
Men nå med en pre season å øve i og et par spillere inn som allerede kjenner Marsch-modellen er det ventet at vi vil øve på 4-2-2-2 fremover.

Leeds-Live prøver å forklare:

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/jesse-marschs-favoured-formation-likely-24123489

Why Jesse Marsch's favoured formation is likely to return in Leeds United pre-season
Leeds first lined up in a 4-2-2-2 under Jesse Marsch

On his arrival at Leeds United, Jesse Marsch was careful to stress that his 'principles' of playing would be more important than the side adapting to particular formations that they weren't used to playing under the previous manager, Marcelo Bielsa. With the Argentine at the helm, Leeds were best known for attacking in 4-1-4-1 and 3-3-1-3 shapes and utilising width in their attacks.

However, Marsch prefers narrowness, and the formations he favours reflect that, as he is best known for lining his teams up in a 4-2-2-2. In fact, according to Transfermarkt, RB Salzburg played the formation for every league game in the 2020/21 season. In the early games of his reign at Leeds, that's how the Whites lined up. With Jack Harrison and Raphinha playing behind Rodrigo and Dan James in the attacking four and with Adam Forshaw and Mateusz Klich playing as the deeper midfield two.

As time went on, that formation became more of a 4-2-3-1, with Raphinha and Harrison playing wider. That formation ended up being more common by the end of the season, apart from the period of three games where Leeds faced Manchester City, Arsenal and Chelsea and they attempted to make the game stodgy for their opponents with a three at the back formation, which proved unsuccessful.

Although Leeds ultimately stayed up and Marsch achieved his first goal as manager of the club, there was a sense that the American compromised on much of his playing philosophy the moment he moved away from the 4-2-2-2. That's why it seems mostly likely that it will return in pre-season, as Leeds will be able to work on it properly without the stress of relegation hanging over them. They can also focus on bringing in players who are more comfortable in the positions required and have already done with their first signing, as Brenden Aaronson played on the left side of the attacking midfield two when Marsch lined up his Salzburg side in the formation.

During the run to the end of the season, there was a growing sense amongst Leeds' fan base that Marsch's penchant for narrowness would not work well in the Premier League and that it was leading to 'ugly' football, as seen in the Watford win and the draw at Crystal Palace. Therefore, many on social media expressed relief to see the team playing with more width as they picked up four points in their final two matches to stay up.

It's important to note that a compact shape in possession is vital to the way Marsch wants to play. In this video from Coaches' Voice, Leeds' manager explains the importance of the front four moving as a unit, with and without the ball.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idkb0c8-W58
That's because pressing is such a vital part of the way the American wants his team to play. In fact, it's seen as one of the primary ways in which the team should be looking to score goals, thanks to Marsch's 'pressing to score' philosophy.

In fact, Marsch is happy for his team to be very aggressive with the ball and not worry too much about turning it over to the opposition, because when they do, they have an opportunity to win it back quickly and create a goalscoring chance out of the chaos. In order to do that, the players need to be as close together as possible so that they can hunt the ball in a pack of four, with the near-side full back and deep midfielders pushing up to squeeze the space and make it more difficult for the opposition to escape.

The 4-2-3-1 formation can work well in that regard and it is easy to shift between that shape and the 4-2-2-2 as it simply requires one of the wider players to join the lone striker to make a front two, or for the central attacking midfielder to do so and vice versa. However, the 4-2-2-2 is the best shape for winning the ball in the centre, as if Leeds can manipulate their opponents to move the ball into the middle of the pitch, they have numerical superiority and can 'fall' on the ball with the six players in midfield and attack.

However, if Marsch compromises on narrowness and attacks with more width, the pressing style he has worked with over his career thus far will be much less effective. Having wingers holding position wide on the touchline would mean they were too far away to squeeze the space, should the ball be lost in central areas, which is where Marsch wants the ball to be the majority of the time. This is due to the fact that the central area just outside the penalty area (sometimes referred to as Zone 14) is the position statistically proven to lead to most goalscoring chances.

In terms of the players Leeds already have in the squad who could still adapt to the formation, Harrison has looked comfortable playing more centrally and his assist for the goal Joe Gelhardt 'scored' on the final day demonstrated that he could work well in compact areas. As Raphinha seems most likely to leave, Leeds could line up with a front four of Aaronson, Harrsion, Gelhardt and Bamford in a 4-2-2-2, before any further attacking signings are considered. There is no denying that the games against Watford and Palace were poor for Leeds, in terms of their play in possession. However, with that attacking four it could be far more promising and with a pre-season to work on the combinations and movements required, it could be much more effective and easy on the eye.

As such, the summer will be the best time to bring the formation back. Should Marsch choose to go another way and utilise more natural width, it will be a departure for him from what he has done previously. Whether he can come up with a new game-model in a short space of time seems unlikely. In that case, narrowness will likely return and with it, his favoured formation.
Jeg må innrømme at jeg syns dette høres aldeles grusomt ut.

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Det er lov. Men hva begrunner du det med? Hva gjør at det høres så grusomt ut?
Spille smalest mulig og bli kvitt ballen fortest mulig for å kunne gjenvinne den? Sistnevnte høres ut som åttitallet. Det håpet jeg vi var ferdige med. Og å ligge så smalt som vi har gjort i de dårligste kampene under Marsch overlot to motorveier for kontringer på hver flanke. Heldigvis var det mot veldig svak motstand.

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- Leif Olav