Informasjon: Lønnstak, rettssak, poengstraff

[baste]

Blir en ren bonus om vi får ettergitt noen poeng..Tipper vi får 5 poeng tilbake....

[McMidjo]

Dette begynner å minne litt om det som skjedde i italiensk fotball, hvor flere klubber ble ilagt strenge poengstraffer pga korrupsjon, men hvor deler av straffene ble ettergitt etter et ras av rettssaker. I 2005 ble man til og med nødt til å utvide Serie B fra 20 til 24 lag pga avgjørelser som ble tatt i italienske rettssaler.

Skybet har ellers satt odds på veddemålet: How many points will Leeds Utd get back after the Arbitration meeting on April 14th 2008?

Interessante odds:
6-10 Points odds 2.87 
11-15 Points odds 2.87 
1-5 Points odds 3.75 
0 Points odds 5.00  (!!)

Leser ellers på WACCOE en historie om at en lokal MP fra Luton har talt Luton fotballklubb sin sak i The House Of Commons - hvor vedkommende nærmeste kom med en innstendig bønn til skattefuten om å ikke tvinge Luton ut i det samme uføret som Leeds....

[75 SOLLI]

Er det mulig FL håper på at vi vil ligge på playoff med mer enn 15p opp slik at de kan gi oss tilbake poengene uten at det får noen betydning(utover hvem man møter i playoff)?

Eller at vi ligger utenfor playoff med mer enn 15 poeng!
Only time will tell.........

[berlin]

Er det mulig FL håper på at vi vil ligge på playoff med mer enn 15p opp slik at de kan gi oss tilbake poengene uten at det får noen betydning(utover hvem man møter i playoff)?

Eller at vi ligger utenfor playoff med mer enn 15 poeng!
Only time will tell.........

....og da toucher vi nedrykkstreken(?), så da er også noen som blir "sinna". 

[kjelvi]

Reduce Leeds' 15-point penalty and we'll take Football League to court - Leyton Orient boss Ling gets ugly

The League One season looks set to end in farce with Leyton Orient now threatening legal action if their promotion chances are hit by any reduction to Leeds United's 15-point penalty.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=527608&in_page_id=1779&ito=newsnow

[Roy]

Leyton blir nummer 12. Problem løst 

[kjelvi]

Reduce Leeds' 15-point penalty and we'll take Football League to court - Leyton Orient boss Ling gets ugly

Leeds United kommenterer Lings utspill: http://www.leedsunited.com/page/NewsroomDetail/0,,10273~1258265,00.html

[McMidjo]

Reduce Leeds' 15-point penalty and we'll take Football League to court - Leyton Orient boss Ling gets ugly

The League One season looks set to end in farce with Leyton Orient now threatening legal action if their promotion chances are hit by any reduction to Leeds United's 15-point penalty.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=527608&in_page_id=1779&ito=newsnow

Denne avisartikkelen refererer til Ling sin spalte i The Racing Post - hvor Ling viser at han egentlig at han ikke har satt seg inn i saken i det hele tatt. Sitat:

"I was speaking to a football club chief executive this weekend and the word is Leeds will get some of those points back.

I don't fully understand why they were docked 15 in the first place rather than the customary ten or why they've left it quite this late to take it any further. My only guess is that it means there will be less time for another club to appeal should Leeds be successful. "

I samme avis er det en annen - like ignorant - komiker som heter Darren Wrack (spiller i Wallsall), som fyrer av en lignende salve:

"All the talk is of Leeds going to appeal to get their 15 points penalty overturned. I hope it fails. They seem like sore losers â€" they did wrong and should accept their punishment like Luton, Rotherham and others.

I can't believe for one minute they'll get the points back because the Football League are almost unanimously behind the original sentence. For Leeds to go to court now is just wasting everyone's time â€" and even if they do win the appeal that won't be the end of it. If they get the 15 points back you can be sure it will get them into the top six, maybe even the top two. So the side that finishes second will be chucked into the play-offs and the side in sixth won't even get into those.
Do you think those clubs will just take it lying down? It could be us.

We've worked hard all season to get where we are and the possibility of being demoted because Ken Bates has gone sobbing to a court wouldn't go down well and would almost certainly end in even more litigation. It would drag on and on."

[kjelvi]

Reduce Leeds' 15-point penalty and we'll take Football League to court - Leyton Orient boss Ling gets ugly
The League One season looks set to end in farce with Leyton Orient now threatening legal action if their promotion chances are hit by any reduction to Leeds United's 15-point penalty.

Denne avisartikkelen refererer til Ling sin spalte i The Racing Post - hvor Ling viser at han egentlig at han ikke har satt seg inn i saken i det hele tatt. Sitat:
"I was speaking to a football club chief executive this weekend and the word is Leeds will get some of those points back.
I don't fully understand why they were docked 15 in the first place rather than the customary ten or why they've left it quite this late to take it any further. My only guess is that it means there will be less time for another club to appeal should Leeds be successful. "

Oppklarende og avslørende!

Jeg støtter Bates' kamp. Urett skal ikke stå uimotsagt og uimotprøvet.

Men har hele tiden forhold meg til utgangspunktet når det gjelder mulighetene for opprykk; Det er på banen vi må avgjøre det - uavhengig av Voldgift, FA, klubbformenn og annet.

Vi må opp. Frykter nok en sesong i L1;  McAllister forsvinner (?), enda vanskeligere å knytte til seg spillere med kvalitet (ref. årets problemer), finansene svekkes ytterligere, m.m.

Mars blir en jæ... spennende måned!

[berlin]

Leyton blir nummer 12. Problem løst 

He-he, for Leyton Orient, ja.
Men er det noen som tror at de klubbene som evetuelt blir skjøvet ned til nr 3 og/eller eventuelt ned til nr 7, ikke vil reagere. Jeg tviler på det. Det skal jammen blir "morsomt". 

[kjelvi]

Orient move to diffuse Ling row

Leyton Orient have distanced themselves from comments made by their manager Martin Ling, who claimed the club could mount retaliatory legal action if Leeds United successfully overturn their 15-point deduction.
United are finalising their preparations for independent arbitration against the Football League after a six-month fight to revoke the 15-point penalty imposed on them in August.
A three-man tribunal panel will hear United's case during the week beginning April 14, a process which the League hope will prevent the need for High Court proceedings, but the possibility of a ruling in favour of Leeds just a fortnight before the end of the season has spread concern among other League One clubs.
The return of just two points would be sufficient to move United into the division's play-off zone as the table stands today, and the club would jump into an automatic promotion spot if their entire deduction was handed back to them.
Ling expressed his concern yesterday, declaring that "the prospect of Leeds going to arbitration over their 15-points deduction should guarantee a messy end to the season".
He also indicated that Orient would move to begin their own legal proceedings if the London club were to surrender sixth position to Leeds as a result of a tribunal decision against the Football League.
Ling said: "My big gripe with any change now is that we've been involved in a race all season in which Leeds have been 15 points behind us all. Indeed, we've factored that into all our plans and I'm sure punters have factored it into their bets for the season.
"For it to change now would put clubs around them at a huge disadvantage and you can rest assured that if we finished sixth and lost the final play-off spot to Leeds on a courtroom appeal, we'd be straight back in court and the whole episode would drag on and on."
But an Orient spokesman attempted to diffuse the controversy, saying: "The quotes have come from a personal column he writes for a newspaper. It is therefore his opinion, rather than that of the club."
The spokesman declined to comment when asked whether the club agreed with Ling's prediction of further legal action if United's challenge against the 15-points was successful.

Leeds boss Gary McAllister, whose team travel to Orient on April 5, refused to involve himself in the row, saying: "I would imagine that from now to the day of the decision, we're going to get a few people chipping in.
"My philosophy is not to get involved. My job here is to get us out of this division and win points. But as much as I won't respond, I will be taking note."

YEP

[kjelvi]

Orient move to diffuse Ling row
Leyton Orient have distanced themselves from comments made by their manager Martin Ling, who claimed the club could mount retaliatory legal action if Leeds United successfully overturn their 15-point deduction.
United are finalising their preparations for independent arbitration against the Football League after a six-month fight to revoke the 15-point penalty imposed on them in August.

Ling legger seg paddeflat!

http://www.leedsunited.com/page/NewsroomDetail/0,,10273~1259220,00.html

[peacock]

Nei, det gjør han ikke. Leyton Orient slår fast at dette ikke er KLUBBENS mening.

[kjelvi]

Bookies Offer Odds On Leeds' Points Deduction  

Odds are being offered on how many points Leeds will win back of the 15 deducted by the Football League at next month's hearing. 
Sky Bet are expecting United to leave the arbitration meeting with nothing, with money flooding in over the weekend causing them to cut the odds of a zero point result from opening odds of 11/2 to 11/4.
Sky Bet's football compiler John Rhodes, said: "Given chairman Ken Bates' determined quest against the Football League to recover points, we feel Leeds will be returned some, if not all of the 15 points by the end of the season and we are, therefore, happy to lay a zero point verdict."
The Whites are 5/2 with Sky Bet to be playing in the Championship next season.

Sky Bet Odds:
Leeds Points Back
0 Points 11/4
1-5 Points 11/4
6-10 Points 6/4
11-15 Points 7/2 

[baste]

Tipper vi får 5 poeng tilbake....10p straff er jo det vanlige i div saker..Håper på 7-8 poeng..Tviler på vi får alle...spennende...

[Erik M]

Fem poeng tilbake kan få helt dramatiske følger helt i sluttfasen av serien.  Dersom Leeds får en god periode nå kan fem poeng løfte oss rett opp på 2. plassen.  Tenkt deg det ramaskriket! 

Jeg har tippet selv at fem poeng tilbake kunne være utgangen av en voldgiftssak.  Dette mener jeg er en umulighet med den datoen som er satt for forhandlingene.  Det vil være to eller tre kamper igjen når avgjørelsen faller.

Leeds får en stor slump cash dersom vi ikke vinner Playoff.  Passer vel Bates bra noen uker før han selger klubben. 

[kjelvi]

Lawyer rates Leeds' points battle 

Leading sports lawyer Richard Kramer believes Leeds United have a "25-30% chance" of having their 15-point penalty overturned.
An arbitration panel will decide on the Football League's sanction to dock Leeds points in mid-April.
Kramer told BBC Radio Leeds: "A few weeks ago I thought it was bleak.
"But having seen the legal documents I think the prospects have improved. I think there's probably a 25-30% chance of winning."
Leeds are appealing against the Football League's decision to dock them points on the eve of the season for breaching their rules on insolvency.
They issued a High Court writ against the Football League, which has been frozen while the matter is heard by an arbitration panel.

"Probably the biggest hurdle is that Leeds actually signed a document to say they would take the Golden Share but they would accept the 15-point deduction"
Sports lawyer Richard Kramer

The hearing will be held in private in front of a neutral Court of Appeal judge, and one representative each from Leeds and the Football League.
United are arguing that the penalty imposed by the League was unlawful, that the decision by the other clubs to dismiss Leeds' subsequent appeal against the sanction was also unlawful, that the 15-point penalty was a disproportionate sanction and that the League have punished the club for the conduct of its administrators, KPMG.
Neither Leeds nor the Football League have commented, but Kramer has seen the original High Court writ, which is a public document.
"Although the actual arbitration proceedings are the subject of confidentiality, as night follows day what's in that legal document at the High Court will form the basis for the legal argument at the arbitration," said Kramer.
"It's a very well presented case, and Leeds United have clearly worked very hard, which is not surprising as there's a huge amount at stake.
"There are significant hurdles to overcome. Probably the biggest hurdle is that Leeds actually signed a document to say they would take the Golden Share [a membership of the Football League which every club must have in order to compete] but they would accept the 15-point deduction.
"It's a tough one for the arbitration panel. I think where Leeds have got some comfort is that it's my understanding that the three-man panel is chaired by a very senior High Court judge or a Court of Appeal judge, so there's going to be some sanity to the arbitration proceedings and I think they will apply a legalistic approach to them."
Even if Leeds do not get all 15 points returned, Kramer believes that they could get some of them back.
He added: "They may carve it up - they might say 'Well hold on, 15 points is too much, we've got to give them something' and bring it down to eight, seven or six."

BBC

[kjelvi]

Odds point in Leeds' favour

Bookmakers are expecting Leeds United to get at least some points back when their appeal against a 15-point deduction is heard next month.
Despite a flurry of bets that saw the odds on a nil-points verdict cut from 11-2 to 11-4, the shortest odds, at 6-4, are on the club being given back between six and ten points.
Optimists who believe Leeds will have all 15 points restored can get 7-2.
A six-point return now would put Leeds into fourth place but still 11 points adrift of Carlisle, who are in the second automatic promotion spot, chasing leaders Swansea .

After climbing above Walsall with one of their best displays for some time, Leeds have a chance to claw their way above another rival when Brighton visit on Saturday.
Midfielder Jonathan Douglas is hoping to return to the starting line-up but he might have to wait a little longer.
Manager Gary McAllister said: "There were ten midfielders at the club when I arrived but the four in possession of the shirts have been doing an excellent job and it won't be easy to displace them."

thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

[kjelvi]

Leeds United, Coventry City and the Jimmy Hill road to financial ruin

The deal brokered by Hill and the PFA over 40 years ago has spawned a monster that sees today's average players milking clubs dry. And as usual, it's Joe Public who suffers.

'When Everton won the League in 1985 the average wage was approximately £1,500 a week'

The PFA has done plenty of good things over the years in helping clubs and players when they have have found themselves in trouble.
More recently they have been proactive in helping Tony Adams champion an anti-addiction clinic which has helped players such as Paul Merson (a recovering gambling addict), along with helping youngsters who are discarded by their clubs, to find a second career.
However, the PFA have a lot to answer for when it comes to the way in which they have managed their members and bullied the clubs into a position where they are literally held to ransom by players. These clubs have no choice but to hand over unbelievable amounts of money to young men who have no idea what to do with it.
Granted, agents have a massive part to play in this procedure but it was the PFA who took an underpaid and overworked player and turned him into an overpaid and underworked one.
Under the stewardship of Jimmy Hill, the PFA broke the fixed wage for footballers, and as a result the amount of money now in the game is being drained out as quickly as it goes in and the only people to benefit from it are the so called superstars.
When Everton won the League in 1985 the average wage was approximately £1,500 a week, these players were the best players around at the time and that was decent money. Now you have players who are really nothing more than decent footballers earning a minimum £30k a week.
Most players earn as much in a week as the people who go to watch them earn in a year, and they are only the average - the top earners in the league now are looking at £120k a week, which puts them in the bracket of paying as much in tax per week as the fans earn in a year.
Some clubs have struggled to cope with these wages - Leeds United are a typical example. But the irony should not be lost that one of the main clubs to struggle financially since the creation of the Premier League and its limitless wages rises has been one very close to Jimmy Hill's heart, Coventry City .
Wages are a huge problem for clubs nowadays and now that there is so much money in the game it should reflect in cheaper seats for fans.
Sadly, the only people who have benefited have been the players and I am sure that wasn’t in the spirit of the original deal brokered by the PFA over 40 years ago.

sportingo.com

[kjelvi]

Date and panel named for Leeds points appeal

Leeds United's attempt to overturn the Football League's 15-point penalty comes to arbitration on April 14 and the composition of the panel that will sit in judgment raises some intriguing questions.
The three-man panel will be headed by Sir Philip Otton, an experienced football arbitrator whose judgments have been some of the most controversial in English football history. Otton chaired the Premier League's proceedings against Ashley Cole, Jose Mourinho and Chelsea which led to £600,000 in fines being handed down for tapping-up, a sum reduced on appeal.
Otton was later accused by Sheffield United of having made an "error in law" for not ordering a fresh hearing of the Carlos Tevez third-party-ownership case, although he felt the Premier League should have docked points from West Ham United.
But, if the Leeds chairman, Ken Bates, comes to ask his former manager Dennis Wise (to one of whose children Bates is godfather), he might consider Otton to be a safe pair of hands. The former court of appeals judge was, after all, one of the three disciplinary commissioners who ordered Leicester City to reinstate Wise and merely fine him two weeks' wages after the club had terminated his contract for breaking Callum Davidson's jaw.
Joining Otton is Peter Cadman, who has also chaired past Premier League disciplinary commissions. But Leeds may be concerned about the involvement of Peter Leaver, the former Premier League chief executive.
Leaver was sacked by the clubs for awarding the former BSkyB executives Sam Chisholm and David Chance lucrative consultancy contracts without first asking his paymasters' permission. Bates's close friend, Sir Dave Richards, succeeded him. Writing in a newspaper column at the time Bates said Leaver had left the league in a "mess".


The Guardian

[kjelvi]

Otton set to lead United points hearing

Retired High Court judge Sir Philip Otton was today being touted as the man with the task of chairing Leeds United's independent arbitration against the Football League.
Otton is reported to have been chosen as the head of a three-man panel which will rule on the validity of United's pre-season 15-point deduction during the week commencing April 14.
Otton, who retired from the Court of Appeal in 2001, has considerable experience of football arbitration matters, and chaired the hearing into the dispute over West Ham United's signing of Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano.
He was also responsible for the Premier League proceedings into allegations Chelsea made an illegal approach for England international Ashley Cole prior to the defender's transfer from Arsenal to Stamford Bridge.
Leeds declined to comment today when asked about reports of Otton's appointment. The club have agreed to a confidential hearing with the Football League, who are being asked to defend and justify their points penalty.
Otton is said to have been joined on the panel by Peter Cadman, who has been involved in a number of previous Premier League disciplinary commissions, and former Premier League chief executive Peter Leaver.
United will urge the panel to overturn a penalty which chairman Ken Bates claims was unfair and unjustified.

YEP

[berlin]

Date and panel named for Leeds points appeal

Leeds United's attempt to overturn the Football League's 15-point penalty comes to arbitration on April 14 and the composition of the panel that will sit in judgment raises some intriguing questions.
The three-man panel will be headed by Sir Philip Otton, an experienced football arbitrator whose judgments have been some of the most controversial in English football history. Otton chaired the Premier League's proceedings against Ashley Cole, Jose Mourinho and Chelsea which led to £600,000 in fines being handed down for tapping-up, a sum reduced on appeal.
Leeds United's attempt to overturn the Football League's 15-point penalty comes to arbitration on April 14 and the composition of the panel that will sit in judgment raises some intriguing questions.
The three-man panel will be headed by Sir Philip Otton, an experienced football arbitrator whose judgments have been some of the most controversial in English football history. Otton chaired the Premier League's proceedings against Ashley Cole, Jose Mourinho and Chelsea which led to £600,000 in fines being handed down for tapping-up, a sum reduced on appeal.

The Guardian

hehe, er det du Kjelvi, eller The Guardian som gjerntar seg selv? 

[kjelvi]

Date and panel named for Leeds points appeal

hehe, er det du Kjelvi, eller The Guardian som gjerntar seg selv? 

Her er det nok Kjelvi's fingerer som ikke holder helt tritt.
Saken (litt høyere opp) er rettet opp med hele teksten!

[Dennis]

[Webredaktøren]

Fem poeng tilbake kan få helt dramatiske følger helt i sluttfasen av serien.  Dersom Leeds får en god periode nå kan fem poeng løfte oss rett opp på 2. plassen.  Tenkt deg det ramaskriket! 

Jeg har tippet selv at fem poeng tilbake kunne være utgangen av en voldgiftssak.  Dette mener jeg er en umulighet med den datoen som er satt for forhandlingene.  Det vil være to eller tre kamper igjen når avgjørelsen faller.

Leeds får en stor slump cash dersom vi ikke vinner Playoff.  Passer vel Bates bra noen uker før han selger klubben. 

Begynner så smått å få trua på at vi får igjen fem poeng jeg også, men er litt mer tvilende til om Bates selger klubben. Men håper at han i allefall gjør det til noen med hjertet i klubben da!

[McMidjo]

Som ventet, går adminprosessen sin samme skjeve gang i Luton som den gjorde i Leeds.

Skattevesenet har blokkert CVA-en, og de nye eierne av Luton vil påberope seg 'Special Circumstances' for å få tilbake spilletillatelsen (den såkalte 'golden share') for klubben.

Regner med at Bournemouth, Rotherham - og kanskje etterhvert Southampton - får smake det samme, og med det antallet klubber i CCC/L1/L2 som rapporteres å slite med økonomien, kan det bli litt av en røre i engelsk fotball de neste årene - om Leedssaken skal danne presedens.

Med det oppstyr Leeds har lagd rundt denne saken - tror jeg ikke The Football League vil våge å gjøre noe som likner forskjellsbehandling mellom Leeds og andre klubber som havner i en lignende situasjon, og en skal ikke se bort fra at det er en del klubber som i disse dager utøver et visst trykk mot ledelsen i FL om å få omgjort/endret Leeds sin poengstraff - nå som det prinsipielle i denne saken antakeligvis begynner å gå opp for en del av disse klubbene.

Link til Luton-saken: http://www.luton.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=105253

[rd1]

Det er jo helt fantastisk at Leeds blir straffet i denne saken.

Skattevesnet blokkerer CVAene fordi de ikke aksepterer at "fotballkreditorer" blir forfordelt i konkurser. Vanligvis er det jo myndighetene som står først i køen (etter lønnsmotagere) når konkursbo skal gjøres opp.
Og grunnen til at "fotballkreditorer" går fremfor skattevesenet er ligaens egne regler..

Det er da så utrolig at ligaen i dømmer Leeds poengstraff for å ikke fått godkjent CVA av kreditorene - i realiteten skattevesenet, når det er på grunn av ligaens egen regler at vi/leeds ikke blir enige med skattemyndighetene. CATCH 21!!!

håper jeg klarte å få poenget mitt frem her.. komplisert sak pakket inn i to avsnitt.

[Tom S]

Poeng oppfattet!
Er helt enig, det er utruleg at vi fekk -15 i denne saken.

Blir spennende å sjå utviklinen her, ikkje minst mtp Luton-saken og alle andre klubber som ligger i administrasjonskjølvatnet.

Det er jo helt fantastisk at Leeds blir straffet i denne saken.

Skattevesnet blokkerer CVAene fordi de ikke aksepterer at "fotballkreditorer" blir forfordelt i konkurser. Vanligvis er det jo myndighetene som står først i køen (etter lønnsmotagere) når konkursbo skal gjøres opp.
Og grunnen til at "fotballkreditorer" går fremfor skattevesenet er ligaens egne regler..

Det er da så utrolig at ligaen i dømmer Leeds poengstraff for å ikke fått godkjent CVA av kreditorene - i realiteten skattevesenet, når det er på grunn av ligaens egen regler at vi/leeds ikke blir enige med skattemyndighetene. CATCH 21!!!

håper jeg klarte å få poenget mitt frem her.. komplisert sak pakket inn i to avsnitt.

[Webredaktøren]

Både The Football League og FA følger med på hva Leeds driver med hele tiden. Vi vil aldri få noe "gratis".

[jarle]

Poengene er våre...

Justice will be done!!!

En gang i løpet av 35 år som fan må vi vel ha litt flyt?

Og dommerne med oss : )))